Liverpool-v-Leeds (Includes score updates!!!)

eirebhoy

Teams:
Liverpool: Dudek, Finnan, Hyypia, Biscan, Riise, Diouf, Gerrard, Smicer, Kewell, Heskey, Owen. Subs: Kirkland, Henchoz, Murphy, Le Tallec, Sinama Pongolle.

Leeds: Robinson, Kelly, Camara, Matteo, Olembe, Pennant, Seth Johnson, Batty, Milner, Viduka, Smith. Subs: Carson, Barmby, Sakho, Roque Junior, Lennon.

Half Time Score: Liverpool 1-1 Leeds. Owen, Smith.

mike65

3-1 Phew!

Goals from Murphy (actually og from Robinson) and Sinama Pongolle (great to see him follow le Tallac so quickly).

Mike.

eirebhoy

Liverpool have a super team but they need someone to partner Owen and that player should be Le Tallec or Pongolle. If Houllier started to play his best team Pool would be a lot further up the table than they are. Here is what I would go for:

---

Dudek

---

Finnan

---

Hyypia

---

Hencoz

---

Riise

Diouf

---

Gerrard

---

Murphy

---

Kewell

---

Owen

---

(anyone but Heskey)

StickyMcGinty

Originally posted by eireboy
Liverpool have a super team but they need someone to partner Owen and that player should be Le Tallec or Pongolle. If Houllier started to play his best team Pool would be a lot further up the table than they are. Here is what I would go for:

---

Dudek

---

Finnan

---

Hyypia

---

Hencoz

---

Riise

Diouf

---

Gerrard

---

Murphy

---

Kewell

---

Owen

---

(anyone but Heskey)

le tallac is DEFINATLY not a centre forward, it would be a waste to have him there. can't wait to see pongolles goal, i heard it was a cool finish. partnership material for owen methinks!!

bbop

Well we won but hey if we cant beat Leeds..... Houllier is once again lucky winning just enough matches to survive

smemon

looking forward to pongolles goal too. ive always thought pongolle was better than le tallec. theres just something about him. houllier should play the both of them more often, week on week off, like ronaldo and rooney. not just leave them on the bench and take them on when games are virtually over.

p.pete

Originally posted by smemon
ive always thought pongolle was better than le tallec. theres just something about him.

I've been saying that for years now:rolleyes:

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by eireboy
Liverpool have a super team but they need someone to partner Owen and that player should be Le Tallec or Pongolle. If Houllier started to play his best team Pool would be a lot further up the table than they are. Here is what I would go for:

---

Dudek

---

Finnan

---

Hyypia

---

Hencoz

---

Riise

Diouf

---

Gerrard

---

Murphy

---

Kewell

---

Owen

---

(anyone but Heskey)

what about Hamann? probably the one player liverpool need back...IMO

jesus_thats_gre

Twas a good game from what I have seen and read and was a deserved win me thinks...

ive always thought pongolle was better than le tallec.

How in lords name did u draw that conclusion... We have seen virtually nothing of either player and they play different positions.

what about Hamann? probably the one player liverpool need back...IMO

I want him back too, I think the team has gone from being too defensive to being too attacking. Hamann should bring some balance back into the squad and help plug what is quick becoming a leaky defence. It will also give Gerard more of an oppurtunity to go forward.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by smemon
looking forward to pongolles goal too. ive always thought pongolle was better than le tallec. theres just something about him. houllier should play the both of them more often, week on week off, like ronaldo and rooney. not just leave them on the bench and take them on when games are virtually over.

At the start of this season you did not even know who these guys were and now "you've always" thought that pongolle is better than Le Tallec.....

They are two completely different players, Pongolle is a striker and Le Tallec is midfielder. There is no way to compare them. It would be like asking a Man U fan who is better Van Nist or Scholes.

bbop

well that is easy van nistilroy, anyhow pongolle looks good, le tallec needs a run in the team like ronaldo he needs time to make mistakes, Houllier aint giving players enough time just look how well Diouf is playin since he got a regular starting slot, he should stick Diao in for a few games he is a far better player than hamman

Psygnosis

How the hell do you come to the conclusion that Dioa is better than Hammanan A player performs week in week out for club and country what the hell has diao ever done. A couple a good games in the WC. If he is so how come he can't get into the team when fit.
Man Dioa bollox he's useless

bbop

[ If he is so how come he can't get into the team when fit.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Because the manager should not be manager, Hamann is probably the most boring player in the premiership and constantly slows down play and preventing counter attacks.
He would be the first player i would sell if i was in charge

mike65

Originally posted by bbop
Because the manager should not be manager, Hamann is probably the most boring player in the premiership and constantly slows down play and preventing counter attacks.
He would be the first player i would sell if i was in charge [/B]

Dear God! Hammans job is to protect the back 4 not be the succesor to Macca. He does the job well and you can tell when he's missing...

Mike.

smemon

ive seen a few friendlies, pongolle looks a classier player then le tallec.

hamann does nothing gerrard cant do, playing himself and gerrard means you go back to boring liverpool. what sort of team plays 2 defensive midfielders in a 4-4-2 formation?? you basically play with 6 defenders then!

bringing hamann back is a step backwards. liverpool fans use him as an excuse for losing, 'oh if only we had hamann back'.

The Muppet

posted by thanx 4 the fish

They are two completely different players, Pongolle is a striker and Le Tallec is midfielder. There is no way to compare them

P-Pete who I would class as a serious liverpool fan actually agreed with smermons point does he not know what he is talking about either?


EDIT< I didn,t notice petes roll eyes sarcasm >

bbop

The fact is everytime he gets the ball the first players he looks for are Hyppia and Henchoz, if we are to really challenge we need to sell Hamann, Smicer, Biscan and Heskey.
If u look at the quality of the other sides we are really lacking
Arsenal Man utd Chelsea Liverpool
Henry Van Nistilroy Crespo Owen
Viera Keane Makelele Gerrard
Pires Giggs Duff Kewell
Campbell Ferdinand Desailly Hyppia

Its all downhill from here
Ljunberg Scholes Mutu Diouf
Bergkamp Solsjaer Hasselbaink Baros
Toure O Shea Gallas Henchoz
Wiltord Ronaldo Cole Murphy
Silva Kleberson Lampard Hamann

I was thinkin maybe Gudjohnson would be a good buy if Recoba doesnt come

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by bbop

Its all downhill from here
Ljunberg Scholes Mutu Diouf
Bergkamp Solsjaer Hasselbaink Baros
Toure O Shea Gallas Henchoz
Wiltord Ronaldo Cole Murphy
Silva Kleberson Lampard Hamann

Some pretty loose comparisons there.. Mutu is way out of place there... Henchoz is on par with any of the player you listed and considerably more experienced. Murphy is a decent and consistent player and so is Hamann.

Its very easy to do loose comparisons like you have but its impossible to directly compare the respective players in each position, thus serving now purpose. If on the other hand you listed each clubs squad list, it might be easier to dram impartial conclusions.

P-Pete who I would class as a serious liverpool fan actually agreed with smermons point does he not know what he is talking about either?

Correct me if I am wrong, but he as being sarcastic i think.

bbop

2 Glen Johnson
3 Celestine Babayaro
4 Claude Makelele
6 Marcel Desailly
7 Adrian Mutu
8 Frank Lampard
9 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
10 Joe Cole
11 Damien Duff
12 Mario Stanic
13 William Gallas
14 Njitap Geremi
15 Mario Melchiot
17 Emmanuel Petit
18 Wayne Bridge
20 Juan Veron
21 Hernan Crespo
22 Eidur Gudjohnsen
23 Carlo Cudicini
26 John Terry
27 Alexis Nicolas
28 Filipe Oliveira
29 Robert Huth
30 Jesper Gronkjaer
31 Marco Ambrosio
34 Neil Sullivan
35 Jurgen Macho
36 Jo Keenan
37 Sebastian Kneissl
38 Valerio Di Cesare
Winston Bogarde
Mbark Boussoufa
Yves Makaba-Makalamby

1 Jerzy Dudeck
2 Stephane Henchoz
3 Steve Finnan
4 Sami Hyypia
5 Milan Baros
7 Harry Kewell
8 Emile Heskey
9 El Hadji Diouf
10 Michael Owen
11 Vladimir Smicer
13 Danny Murphy
15 Salif Alassane Diao
16 Dietmar Hamann
17 Steven Gerrard
18 John Arne Riise
20 Anthony Le Tallec
21 Djimi Traore
22 Chris Kirkland
23 Jamie Carragher
24 Florent Sinama Pongolle
25 Igor Biscan
26 Richie Partridge
28 Bruno Cheyrou
29 Patrice Luzi Bernardi
32 John Welsh
34 Darren Potter
36 John Otsemobor
37 Zak Whitbread
38 Michael Foley-Sheridan
40 Paul Harrison
David Mannix
Carl Medjani

1 Jens Lehmann
3 Ashley Cole
4 Patrick Vieira
5 Martin Keown
7 Robert Pires
8 Fredrik Ljungberg
10 Dennis Bergkamp
11 Sylvain Wiltord
12 Bisan Lauren
13 Stuart Taylor
14 Thierry Henry
15 Ray Parlour
17 Edu
18 Pascal Cygan
19 Gilberto Silva
20 Philippe Senderos
22 Gael Clichy
23 Sol Campbell
24 Rami Shaaban
25 Nwankwo Kanu
27 Stathis Tavlaridis
28 Kolo Toure
30 Jeremie Aliadiere
33 Graham Stack


1 Fabien Barthez
2 Gary Neville
3 Phil Neville
5 Rio Ferdinand
6 Wes Brown
7 Cristiano Ronaldo
8 Nicky Butt
10 Ruud van Nistelrooy
11 Ryan Giggs
12 David Bellion
13 Roy Carroll
14 Tim Howard
15 Jose Kleberson
16 Roy Keane
18 Paul Scholes
19 Eric Djemba-Djemba
20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Diego Forlan
22 John O'Shea
23 Kieran Richardson
24 Darren Fletcher
25 Quinton Fortune
26 Danny Pugh
27 Mikael Silvestre
28 Mark Lynch

mike65

None of which proves anything...Arsenal are crap in the CL, Utd lost at home to Fulham, Chelsea draw against Birmingham and Liverpool lost to Postmouth....er Portsmouth!

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

So to be really simplistic, just look at the size of both Liverpool's and Chelsea's when compared to United's or Arsenal. Both Arsenal and United have the best starting 11, but thats where it ends and any spate of injuries or suspension will have a massive dent on there team. Chelsea have an excellent squad but just need alot more time to gel. Liverpool have a very good squad but an inferior starting 11 to the other 3.


Lets list players that we would actually consider to be decent or offer potential. By decent I mean would consistenly be in the team in some capacity over the past 12 months say.

Chelsea - 22

2 Glen Johnson
3 Celestine Babayaro
4 Claude Makelele
6 Marcel Desailly - past it/not considered/on his way out
7 Adrian Mutu
8 Frank Lampard
9 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
10 Joe Cole
11 Damien Duff
13 William Gallas
14 Njitap Geremi
15 Mario Melchiot
17 Emmanuel Petit - past it/not considered/on his way out
18 Wayne Bridge
20 Juan Veron
21 Hernan Crespo
22 Eidur Gudjohnsen
23 Carlo Cudicini
26 John Terry
29 Robert Huth
30 Jesper Gronkjaer
34 Neil Sullivan - past it/not considered/on his way out



Liverpool - 22

1 Jerzy Dudeck
2 Stephane Henchoz
3 Steve Finnan
4 Sami Hyypia
5 Milan Baros
7 Harry Kewell
8 Emile Heskey - crap
9 El Hadji Diouf
10 Michael Owen
11 Vladimir Smicer
13 Danny Murphy
15 Salif Alassane Diao
16 Dietmar Hamann
17 Steven Gerrard
18 John Arne Riise
20 Anthony Le Tallec
21 Djimi Traore
22 Chris Kirkland
23 Jamie Carragher
24 Florent Sinama Pongolle
25 Igor Biscan - crap
28 Bruno Cheyrou - crap



Arsenal - 19

1 Jens Lehmann - crap
3 Ashley Cole
4 Patrick Vieira
5 Martin Keown - past it/not considered/on his way out
7 Robert Pires
8 Fredrik Ljungberg
10 Dennis Bergkamp - past it
11 Sylvain Wiltord - crap
12 Bisan Lauren
13 Stuart Taylor
14 Thierry Henry
15 Ray Parlour - past it/not considered/on his way out
17 Edu
18 Pascal Cygan - crap
19 Gilberto Silva - crap
23 Sol Campbell
25 Nwankwo Kanu - crap
28 Kolo Toure
30 Jeremie Aliadiere



United - 20

1 Fabien Barthez - crap
2 Gary Neville
3 Phil Neville
5 Rio Ferdinand
6 Wes Brown
7 Cristiano Ronaldo
8 Nicky Butt
10 Ruud van Nistelrooy
11 Ryan Giggs
14 Tim Howard
15 Jose Kleberson - crap
16 Roy Keane - past it/not considered/on his way out
18 Paul Scholes
19 Eric Djemba-Djemba - crap
20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Diego Forlan - crap
22 John O'Shea
24 Darren Fletcher
25 Quinton Fortune
27 Mikael Silvestre


Now lets label who we think are are crap or a waste of money, getting old or are not considered. And yes Barthez is useless, otherwise Sir Alex wouldnt be getting rid of him.

Pepe LeFrits

Hold on - Gilberto, Wiltord, Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson are crap?

Better add a few more of those complimentary tags to Liverpool's fantastic squad and one or two to Chelsea's wonderteam.

Incidently, it's pretty funny that a hasbeen (Bergkamp) and a crap player (Kanu) were largely the reason that Arsenal beat Chelsea the other day.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by kif
Incidently, it's pretty funny that a hasbeen (Bergkamp) and a crap player (Kanu) were largely the reason that Arsenal beat Chelsea the other day.

I thought it was Cudicini

The Muppet

Posted by jesus thats great

16 Roy Keane - past it/not considered/on his way out

ROFL

How could anyone take a comment like that seriously? Have you not seen him play this season?

Funny how liverpool dont have anyone past it and on the way out and yet they are still crap.:D

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by The Muppet
ROFL

How could anyone take a comment like that seriously? Have you not seen him play this season?

Funny how liverpool dont have anyone past it and on the way out and yet they are still crap.:D

So you noticed that did you, damn

Well I hope you know what I mean about Keane, he is getting old. Obviously I exaduated it slightly to draw a reaction As for Liverpool, they have a few crap players, but its a very young squad all in all.

The Muppet

As for Liverpool, they have a few crap players, but its a very young squad all in all.

Ah the "you win nothing with kids" excuse is a popular on merseyside.

Didn;t someone prove that wrong at one stage?:D

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by The Muppet
Ah the "you win nothing with kids" excuse is a popular on merseyside.

Didn;t someone prove that wrong at one stage?:D

Shame he hasn't stood by this great theory, well not local youths anyway!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by The Muppet
posted by thanx 4 the fish



P-Pete who I would class as a serious liverpool fan actually agreed with smermons point does he not know what he is talking about either?


EDIT< I didn,t notice petes roll eyes sarcasm >

:rolleyes: Looks like that backfired slightly..... :rolleyes:

And in at no. 1 for the Muppet.

"Ooops I did it again".

bbop

ok ive selcted the best 19 in each squad and given them a rating, feel free to give urs

Chelsea - 22

2 Glen Johnson 8
3 Celestine Babayaro 6
4 Claude Makelele 8
6 Marcel Desailly 8
7 Adrian Mutu 10
8 Frank Lampard 8
9 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink 8
10 Joe Cole 8
11 Damien Duff 9
13 William Gallas 8
14 Njitap Geremi 7
15 Mario Melchiot 6
17 Emmanuel Petit - 6
18 Wayne Bridge 7
20 Juan Veron 7
21 Hernan Crespo 10
22 Eidur Gudjohnsen 8
23 Carlo Cudicini 8
26 John Terry 8
148

Liverpool

1 Jerzy Dudeck 7
2 Stephane Henchoz 7
3 Steve Finnan 7
4 Sami Hyypia 8
5 Milan Baros 7
7 Harry Kewell 9
8 Emile Heskey 6
9 El Hadji Diouf 8
10 Michael Owen 10
11 Vladimir Smicer 7
13 Danny Murphy 7
15 Salif Alassane Diao 7
16 Dietmar Hamann 6
17 Steven Gerrard 8
18 John Arne Riise 7
20 Anthony Le Tallec 7
22 Chris Kirkland 8
23 Jamie Carragher 7
24 Florent Sinama Pongolle 7
140



Arsenal
1 Jens Lehmann 7
3 Ashley Cole 8
4 Patrick Vieira 10
5 Martin Keown 7
7 Robert Pires 9
8 Fredrik Ljungberg 8
10 Dennis Bergkamp 7
11 Sylvain Wiltord 7
12 Bisan Lauren 7
13 Stuart Taylor 7
14 Thierry Henry 10
15 Ray Parlour 7
17 Edu 7
18 Pascal Cygan 6
19 Gilberto Silva 7
23 Sol Campbell 8
25 Nwankwo Kanu 7
28 Kolo Toure 7
30 Jeremie Aliadiere 7
142


United

1 Fabien Barthez 7
2 Gary Neville 7
3 Phil Neville 7
5 Rio Ferdinand 7
6 Wes Brown 8
7 Cristiano Ronaldo 7
8 Nicky Butt 7
10 Ruud van Nistelrooy 10
11 Ryan Giggs 10
14 Tim Howard 8
15 Jose Kleberson 7
16 Roy Keane 9
18 Paul Scholes 8
19 Eric Djemba-Djemba 7
20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 7
21 Diego Forlan 6
22 John O'Shea 7
25 Quinton Fortune 7
27 Mikael Silvestre 8
144

Chelsea are a good player or 2 ahead of the rest

mike65

Originally posted by bbop

20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 7
21 Diego Forlan 6

*cough* :ninja:

Mike.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Both Arsenal and United have the best starting 11...

I disagree. i think Chelsea and Arsenal have the best starting 11, followed by United, than Liverpool. If you judge player by player I don't think United have a superb team its the team spirit and other reasons that make them a great team.

These are the best players for each postion IMO although, no doubt there will be a lot of disagreements. There are obviously other players who play in the same position but I will go for the player I think plays there the most. ManU play a lot of players out of position so i am ignoring that aswell.

GK: 1.Cudicini; 2.Lehmann/ Howard/ Dudek. (can't decide as we haven't seen a lot of Howard and Lehmann but Cudicini is better than Dudek. They still have to prove themselves).

DL: 1. Cole; 2.Riise 3. O'Shea; 4.Bridge.

DR: 1. Finnan; 2. Lauren/ G.Neville; 3. Johnston (unproven)

DC (too hard to choose): 1. Ferdinand/ Campbell/ Hyypia/ Terry.

DC: 1. Gallas; 2. Henchoz; 3. Keown (or Cygan, Toure); 4. Brown.

ML: 1. Duff;2. Giggs;3. Kewell/Pires.

MR: 1. Ljungberg; 2. Diouf 3. Whoever Ferguson plays there as it is always changed; 3. Geremi (hasn't been playing well for Chelsea.

DMC: 1. Makka/ Viera/ Keane; 2. Gerrard.

MC: 1. Scholes; 2. Lampard; 3. Murphy; 4. Gilberto (or Edu, Parlour or whoever else)

FC: 1. Henry/Mutu (both players are more than just goal scorers 2. RVN 3.Owen.

FC: 1. Crespo; 2. Solskjaer; 3. Wiltord/Baros.

Lets say I give 4 points for coming 1st, 3 for 2nd and so on (and yes, I am very bored:rolleyes: )

Chelsea: 35 points

Arsenal: 32 points

Man Utd: 32 points

Liverpool: 31 points.

I gave the others a head start giving Chelsea the least points for their full backs but they still won by a good bit.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by eireboy
I disagree. i think Chelsea and Arsenal have the best starting 11, followed by United, than Liverpool. If you judge player by player I don't think United have a superb team its the team spirit and other reasons that make them a great team.

These are the best players for each postion IMO although, no doubt there will be a lot of disagreements. There are obviously other players who play in the same position but I will go for the player I think plays there the most. ManU play a lot of players out of position so i am ignoring that aswell.

GK: 1.Cudicini; 2.Lehmann/ Howard/ Dudek. (can't decide as we haven't seen a lot of Howard and Lehmann but Cudicini is better than Dudek. They still have to prove themselves).

DL: 1. Cole; 2.Riise 3. O'Shea; 4.Bridge.

DR: 1. Finnan; 2. Lauren/ G.Neville; 3. Johnston (unproven)

DC (too hard to choose): 1. Ferdinand/ Campbell/ Hyypia/ Terry.

DC: 1. Gallas; 2. Henchoz; 3. Keown (or Cygan, Toure); 4. Brown.

ML: 1. Duff;2. Giggs;3. Kewell/Pires.

MR: 1. Ljungberg; 2. Diouf 3. Whoever Ferguson plays there as it is always changed; 3. Geremi (hasn't been playing well for Chelsea.

DMC: 1. Makka/ Viera/ Keane; 2. Gerrard.

MC: 1. Scholes; 2. Lampard; 3. Murphy; 4. Gilberto (or Edu, Parlour or whoever else)

FC: 1. Henry/Mutu (both players are more than just goal scorers 2. RVN 3.Owen.

FC: 1. Crespo; 2. Solskjaer; 3. Wiltord/Baros.

Lets say I give 4 points for coming 1st, 3 for 2nd and so on (and yes, I am very bored:rolleyes: )

Chelsea: 35 points

Arsenal: 32 points

Man Utd: 32 points

Liverpool: 31 points.

I gave the others a head start giving Chelsea the least points for their full backs but they still won by a good bit.

Excellent post... :cool:

While I agree with most of what you said, you are taking each player as individuals. When playing as a team, United still have the best starting 11, Arsenal second, Chelsea third and Liverpool fourth.