What is a good line?

dub45

There seems to be constant references to the contribution a good line makes to broadband speed.

Can anyone tell me what the definition of a 'good line' is and how can one establish how good one's own line is?

I would also be interested in knowing why speeds can vary so much if a line is supposedly 'bad' surely if a line is bad the speed even if not so great should be constant?

ER

Its hard to know if you have a Good Line unless you apply for DSL pass the initial line test and have an Eircom Engineer physically test your telephone line noise reading prior to installation.

Factors that influence whether you have a good line include

a) the distance you live from your local exchange

&

b) the physical quality of the copper wiring, internally in your home and the last mile to the exchange.

dub45

Just to expand my query then in my case I have passed the test and have dsl so is it reasonable to assume then that I have a fairly good line:) or could there still be problems on it that would result in slow speeds?

suppafly

Just while ye'er at it it, does anyone from Montenotte, Cork have DSL and is it good? I've ordered it and am waiting for eircom to get back to me(they said it would be 10-15 days, and have been about 9 some far)

ER

If DSL is enabled on your line, its safe to say that you have a good line. Connection speed on DSL will usually vary between 30 and 60 kbps, this you can compare against the transfer rate reported when your downloading a file using Internet Explorer.

Of course it could be a technical issue with the hardware at the local exchange especially if your transfer rate is well below 30kbps. But if your 30 or slightly above could just be down to the distance you live from the local exchange.

Rgds
ER

Hugh_C

Originally posted by dub45
Can anyone tell me what the definition of a 'good line' is and how can one establish how good one's own line is?

About 8 cm and not too lumpy.

The proof is in the pudding, as it were...

spongebob

Originally posted by suppafly
Just while ye'er at it it, does anyone from Montenotte, Cork have DSL and is it good?

Montenotte has notoriously bad lines, lead wrapped in paper sometimes. Montenotte had phones before WW I

Ripwave

Originally posted by dub45
Just to expand my query then in my case I have passed the test and have dsl so is it reasonable to assume then that I have a fairly good line:) or could there still be problems on it that would result in slow speeds?

Bear in mind that the service being sold by Eircom, IOL and UTV is RADSL - that's Rate Adaptive DSL. The signal will degrade gracefully if there are some flaws in the line that cause signal dropouts in part of the signal spectrum.

In other words, RADSL is more like a V90 modem, where you can get anything from 28k to 52k connections, than ISDN, where you either get 64K or nothing. With RADSL you will get anywhere from 256K to 512K (to the DSLAM- there's no guarantee that you'll get that much bandwdith from that point on).

One of the main reasons why RADSL is considered a "good thing", is that it permits eircom to deliver DSL to end users whose lines would fail the far stricter line tests that were used for Eircoms original (€108/month) service. If you qualified for the original service, you'll get the full speed on the new service, but if you would have failed the original test, you might now pass the current test, but still not get the full 512K to the DSLAM. (It's all explained in the FAQs somewhere).

dub45

. With RADSL you will get anywhere from 256K to 512K

But what's the story if you rarely get near 256k as I and lots of others do or dont as the case may be with UTV? UTV raised the issue of the quality of the line and thats why I asked.

Is it possible as a matter of interest to carry out the test for the more demanding Eircom product that you mentioned?

I have been assured by Eircom recently that my line is fine.

And is there any definitive way of finding out how good a line actually is once and for all?

Ripwave

Originally posted by dub45
But what's the story if you rarely get near 256k as I and lots of others do or dont as the case may be with UTV? UTV raised the issue of the quality of the line and thats why I asked.

If lots of people on UTV are having problems then it's not likely top be a line quality issue, is it? Have you tried to download a large file from a UTV server, or any server on the same backbone as UTV? (If you traceroute from your machine to a variety of web servers, is there a point at which response times consistently drop off?

dub45

If you traceroute from your machine to a variety of web servers, is there a point at which response times consistently drop off?

Now you are exposing my technical ignorance unfortunately.

dub45

Part 2 sorry I inadvertently pressed send there.

What I can tell you is that I have just done the UTV speedtest and my speed there was around 300kbps, usually on any of the other speedtests it works out at about half that and hey presto its just come in at 158 on bandwidthplace.com while giganews was giving me 220.

When I complained before UTV were putting it down to my line not being great and even the weather but now lots of people (relatively anyways) are complaining about similar speed problems.

Ripwave

Originally posted by dub45
Part 2 sorry I inadvertently pressed send there.

What I can tell you is that I have just done the UTV speedtest and my speed there was around 300kbps, usually on any of the other speedtests it works out at about half that and hey presto its just come in at 158 on bandwidthplace.com while giganews was giving me 220.

Doing a speedtest on a "foreign" server is a waste of time and bandwidth. If you're getting 300kbps from UTV then you're getting reasonable, if not great, throughput for a RADSL service. What happens if you run two copies of that test in 2 browser windows at the same time?

When I complained before UTV were putting it down to my line not being great and even the weather but now lots of people (relatively anyways) are complaining about similar speed problems.

I don't read the UTV forums, and I certainly have seen much evidence of complaints here, but you should bear in mind that you're far more likely to hear from someone who is having a problem, than from someone who isn't. Given the huge number of Boards users who have been directed towards UTV by favourable comments here, and the massive firestorm of complaints that Netsource users kicked up, I don't know where you're getting the idea that lots of UTV customers are complaining from.

(I'm not saying they aren't complaining - I'm satying that they aren't complaining much in the Broadband forum).

dub45

What happens if you run two copies of that test in 2 browser windows at the same time?

Got 320 and 200.

but you should bear in mind that you're far more likely to hear from someone who is having a problem, than from someone who isn't.

Well there are a number of ways of looking at this. Lots of people dont use boards or a support group so I think its safe to assume that people who complain at least represent a number of silent users. And usually a safisfied customer will pipe up and say I am getting great service here.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that lots of UTV customers are complaining from.

There are two quite long threads of disgruntled customers voicing their concerns on UTV support at the moment and more worrying is the silence from UTV. Even some of the very loyal defenders of UTV there are expressing concern at the silence. So thats where I am getting my idea! and have you looked at this? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120863

Ripwave

Originally posted by dub45
There are two quite long threads of disgruntled customers voicing their concerns on UTV support at the moment and more worrying is the silence from UTV. Even some of the very loyal defenders of UTV there are expressing concern at the silence. So thats where I am getting my idea! and have you looked at this? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120863

Yeah I read it - and it proves my point. There's a handful of people complaining, and half of them clearly haven't a clue what they're talking about. Go read any of the dozens of Netsource threads that polluted this board in the last month to see what "disgruntled customers" sound like.

You're not paying for a 512kb/s pipe, you're paying to share a 512kb/s pipe with 47 other people (actually, it's a 2MB pipe with up to 191 other people, AFAIK). You're going to experience contention, particularly at "popular" times of day.

Personally, if I had to choose from a bunch of ISPs offering a 48:1 contention ratio, I'd pick the one that actively blocked all P2P apps as my first choice, all else being equal. My seconds criteria would be to pick the one with the lowest cap that meets my needs (because there's less likelihood that I'll be crowded out by people who are downloaing whatever they can get their hands on). Unfortunately, there isn't an ISP offering the first option, and eircom is the only one offering the 2nd, which would put me between a rock and a hard place if I had to choose a DSL provider. (Though eircom help to avoid the ethical dilemma by charging about €100 more over the course of the minimum contract period).