The pre-marriage course

Eden

Has anyone ever done this? Is it really as bad as they say it is? Are there a load of priests and pious ladies telling you to pray before you "do the business!"?
And will our (young) priest make us do it?:(

RicardoSmith

Its not 50's Ireland and some of the courses are good. Its up to the priest if you "have" to do it. But that siad. If the idea of a days course is so daunting that you'd rather skip it. You'd need to rethink how ready you are for marraige which is a much bigger deal. The idea is you're an adult and are able cope with such trivial challenges as a "course" and the responsibilites that go with that. If you not, then WTF are you doing getting married? Heres a link to a good course.

http://www.fatherpat.com

The course gets you thinking the right way about getting married and throws some issues at you that you should have sorted in your heads before doing the dirty deed! For example, if you couldn't have kids for some reason would be both be happy to adopt. Stuff like that. Other practical issues of the wedding service are covered and also practical advice for your life afterwards.

DMT

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Its not 50's Ireland and some of the courses are good.

I saw a repeat of a 1960's RTE documentary showing footage of a group Accord marriage course.
It actually had some thought provoking stuff in it - some of it more relevant to the 1960's, while the rest was still relevant today. It sort of burst people's bubbles of what they thought marriage was about....

neonitrix

I did one about 3 years ago with Accord the course took place in Bray over 1 evening and 1 full day.

It was ok, wasnt run by a priest some married couple who volenteer for Accord ran the course. wasnt as much hassle as I thought it would be. They wernt preechy or anything and understand that it wasnt the 50's. when we were asked if we would be using contraception we said yes and didnt get any comments or anything back from them.


neonitrix

Eden

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
If the idea of a days course is so daunting that you'd rather skip it. You'd need to rethink how ready you are for marraige which is a much bigger deal. The idea is you're an adult and are able cope with such trivial challenges as a "course" and the responsibilites that go with that. If you not, then WTF are you doing getting married?

Look, love, we've already started our family, own our home and have been through some really rough times supporting each other and getting through to the other end together. And now that we have the money to have a "wedding" and celebrate our love with a moving and meaningful ceremony and a party afterwards, we find it a bit ridiculous that we may have to do a bloody course on how to do all the things we feel we've already done.
IMO, it's a waste of moolah.
So please don't preach to me about responsibility. I'm mighty peeved that you have me down for a rushing-into-it idiot just from reading a few lines of a post.
The fact is many people have told us that the course was a waste of time, and I wanted more opinions on it.

Sangre

Originally posted by Eden
, and I wanted more opinions on it.

No.
You wanted an opinion that agreed with your views.

He gave you his opinion of the situation and you jumped down his throat.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Its not 50's Ireland and some of the courses are good. Its up to the priest if you "have" to do it. But that siad. If the idea of a days course is so daunting that you'd rather skip it. You'd need to rethink how ready you are for marraige which is a much bigger deal. The idea is you're an adult and are able cope with such trivial challenges as a "course" and the responsibilites that go with that. If you not, then WTF are you doing getting married? Heres a link to a good course.

http://www.fatherpat.com

The course gets you thinking the right way about getting married and throws some issues at you that you should have sorted in your heads before doing the dirty deed! For example, if you couldn't have kids for some reason would be both be happy to adopt. Stuff like that. Other practical issues of the wedding service are covered and also practical advice for your life afterwards.

In all fairness, its a bit much.. Going to one course does not determine whether you are compatible as husband and wife or not....

Originally posted by Sangre
No.
You wanted an opinion that agreed with your views.

He gave you his opinion of the situation and you jumped down his throat.

Are you and Ricardo best mates or something?




I can see your point Eden.... The way I would look at it is thats its only a day and a bit of money, so I would go to it anyway. Ya never know, it might open your eyes to something new. And if it doesn't teach ya anything new, your safe in the knowledge that you have most issues of any relationship sorted..

Boston

so basically oyu have been living in sin for a number of years and have a number of children out side marriage? How do you think a priest will react to this. Most priest are complete asswholes anyway. thats nothing some and having one on the family. What the hell do they know about the real world, their social standing shlieds them from the harse realities of life and its responsibilities, they have never had to make a difficult disicsion in their tiny closed minded lifes, they have never lived. self rightious jumped up tossers, better off with otu them, Unless you want to waste a day being told that your going to hell for bringing your children into the world.

Sangre

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre

Are you and Ricardo best mates or something?

Yes, and we're lovers....I suspect you are jealous.

PhilipMarlowe

We did our course (a day), which wasn't too bad.
An interesting part of the day concerned budgeting for a household... remember, lots of the attendees wouldn’t necessarily be living together before (or for very long).
I don’t remember any priests there much, though it was obviously organized by a religious crowd. Most of the speakers were lay people, councilors etc.
Like the sexually aspect of the course was given by a marriage councilor who advised on adoption, contraception most relevant stuff.

I suppose the very nature of a course like these is that they will have to be all encompassing - you will most likely never find a pair of virgins, living with parents, no clue about household budgeting, no clue about relationships etc. for whom every aspect of the course is eye-opening.

For anyone who considers that they already know it all, I guess you probably could volunteer to lecture at these courses…

Eden

Good idea Licksy. I shall immediately contact ACCORD.
Sangre, it must be great to be a mindreader. I guess youre not long at it, though, seeing as you got me wrong.
I did not jump down anyones throat for having a different opinion of me. However I will jump down someones throat for having the wrong opinion of me.
All I did was ask for opinions on the course, put a wee sad face at the end of my post, and Ricardo presumed I wasn't mature enough to be married. A bit rich considering the guy doesn't know me.
I know that there are some people who feel that they would benefit by going to a pre marraige course. I'm not one of them though, and I resent the fact that I may have to do it anyway. If there is a choice, it's not very well documented.
Boston... our priest baptised our babbie, so he couldn't be that disgusted with us.
Another question. We are considering getting a blessing and being legally married a day or so before in a reg office. My fiance isn't Catholic, but all of my family are, and I would like a blessing to honour that. Do priests still recommend that you do a pre marraige course?
Has anyone had a bad experience of a course?
Also, we live in a small town and don't have a car, so therefore would find it difficult to go to a mid week course in the evenings in the city, and as he works weekends, it would be virtually impossible to go to a weekend long one. Does anyone have any tips or ideas on what we could do there, if the priest insists we complete the course.

Beruthiel

I want no more crap on this thread or I’m locking it

If you have had an experience or knowledge on the subject, comment on it, the rest of you try to refrain from saying anything at all.

Eden, why don’t you just go see your priest and ask him the relevant questions

Eden

Er... coz this is a discussion forum???
What's wrong with asking peoples opinions? I only wanted some stories on the pre marraige course and if people agreed with it or not, and why?
And why not just ask the priest? Because, as far as I know, there are pre marriage courses available that aren't run by Catholic groups. The priest will just give me ACCORDs number, most likely. So maybe some people here would have story/opinion/info on that as well. Anyone?

RicardoSmith

Hey chill dudes/dudettes

All I assumed was that you have to question your readiness for marraige on the negative tone of your post. Your post is all I have to go one. You could be gay couple for all I know luvvie. Your post was negative towards religion which thus kinda conflicts with the whole marraige thing which is primarily a religious ceremony. Since its not legal requirement and its obviously not the only way to show commitment.

The courses have to cater for all kinds of people, and my examples were only examples. I posted a link, (the only person to do so - I note) so you could see the content of a course for yourself. Not all course are the same. We did some research. Heard this one was better than the others. Certainly I wouldn't go to one that someone thought was crap. Whats the point in that. As is listening to the opinion of someone who didn't get anyhting out of the course that they were "made" do. (as if they were a child LOL). The courses probably do cover things that you already know even if you were 17. What course doesn't. The courses are about the religious aspects of being married and of course some life skills too. Maybe you know them all. Personally I think I'll aways be learning, willing to learn and willing to accept that I don't know everything. Even about things I know a lot about already. Thats a life skill too.

This is an open forum and anyone can post their opinion. You don't have to like it and you're free to complain about other opinions. But you seem more interested in my opinion of your virtual self than my opinon of the course. If your attitude to the course is "WTF am I doing here, we know it all" then you'll learn nothing and theres no point in doing it. If you don't agree with priest about doing the course, then you can simply get married in a church where the priest doesn't ask you do to it, or where you don't have to to do any of the other religious requirements either. Incidentally they are asking people to do pre-batismal courses these days too. Why? Because too many people treat the church and their religion like a Hello photo shoot and as primarily a social event. Most people miss the religious aspects of the whole thing.

Eden

I'm generally not a very enthusiastic Catholic, but it's the religion I was baptised into as a baby. I am, however, a spiritual person and although I'm not too keen on organised religion (in principal), I do want a spiritual side to the day. Marriage means a bit more than a piece of paper to me.
Also, my family are catholic so it would be to honour them too.
You may think I have no right to a Catholic ceremony but as I said, I feel marriage is more than just a legal thing (obv!). I think the best way to add this aspect to the occasion is to have a Catholic mass and ceremony, make our vows before God as well as government.
My first post may have seemd overly negative but that might be because, as I said, I haven't heard anything good about the course and wanted maybe a different opinion, from other people. Horror stories abound!
I don't like the idea of the priest insisting we do a course either, but thats probably because he knows us and I think he should understand that we feel we can learn anything else we need to learn ourselves. It's what we've been doing all along, and I don't think we need a course to continue that!
I fully agree with pre baptisimal courses however (provided you're not 6 weeks old). In fact, people should wait until they are adults before being baptised into any faith. Even the age of 12/13 for a Catholic confirmation seems a bit young to me... you definately don't know what you want/need/believe in at that age.
One more question. Does anyone feel that the introduction of pre marraige courses have done any good? It seems even more marriages are breaking up these days.
I think that a pre marriage course only really benefits someone (as Ricardo mentioned) that goes in there in a positive frame of mind to learn something. Does anyone think that too many people are doing it without wating to be there, and consequently getting no value from it???

milltown

Eden,
You're obviously totally against the idea from the outset but as was said above you asked for opinions and got them. The sad fact is, if you want a traditional Irish church wedding you have to play by the traditional Irish church rules. If that means spending a day and a half on a prescribed course then so be it, if it's a church wedding yis want.
Myself and my now wife were of a similar opinion, if a little less pig-headed about it, as you appear to be, having lived together for a few years and been through our fair share but we wanted the traditional wedding so we sucked it up and went along to the course. The course was harmless enough and we met a few nice people on it. It's not run by the church, technically, but it is run by an organisation that is almost the church. They do discuss family planning in more detail than just the rhythm method among other things you wouldn't expect to hear from a priest.
To summarise: If you feel that strongly against spending money and time on a course just because the church tells you, give it up and book an appointment in the registry office. Vote with your feet, as it were.

MojoMaker

Why am I smelling an embittered skanger?

Do the ****ing course, you might learn something about the obvious issues you've been brushing under the carpet for the last while. Like your deep-seated resentment for starters.

Beruth, honestly.

Gordon

Originally posted by Eden
Er... coz this is a discussion forum???

Er... whats wrong with jumping down people's throats??? You were jumping down people's throats, I don't give an arse if you say you weren't because you were.

Mojomaker - no name calling please.

As for staying on topic - unfortunately I have no help to offer.

Silent Bob

If you want to get married and the priest is a Roman Catholic one who insists you do some kind of course then inform him that you don't want to do said course and if he won't marry you without it then you will get married in a Church of Ireland church and will bring your children up in said church.

This usually has the effect of making them back down on stupid issues.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Silent Bob
If you want to get married and the priest is a Roman Catholic one who insists you do some kind of course then inform him that you don't want to do said course and if he won't marry you without it then you will get married in a Church of Ireland church and will bring your children up in said church.

This usually has the effect of making them back down on stupid issues.

So for the sake of doing a days course, you'd change the religion you've had since birth (probably). Since the church is as stubborn as a mule even when it knows its wrong and never admits it. I doubt that it would work. Just find a church where the priest doesn't require you to do the course. Only about 50% of them do. Of course they usually charge you for getting married in a church thats not your own parish.

DMT

Originally posted by Eden
we find it a bit ridiculous that we may have to do a bloody course on how to do all the things we feel we've already done.

Since when does anyone have to do a marriage course to get married?
In my Catholic church you just have to give 3 months notice.
There's something fncked up going on there....

RicardoSmith

Its up to the PP in each parish. If you don't want to do it pick another church/priest.

Quigs Snr

Sometimes you can get away with it. My sister got married a few weeks ago, the priest insisted on the course, but her husbands job meant that he could not be available for any of the dates, so they were away with it.

I can see how it's a problem for some people. Personally, I despise organised religion and for good reason, despite being brought up a catholic. My better half, wants a big church wedding and I'd be willing to do it for her despite the fact that it's not something I would be especially interested in, I know it would mean a lot to her. However if this means a stupid course, It would take quite a lot to get me to go to that, I am talking a loaded gun in the back here, as the local one here my mate went to, is actually a crowd of nuns talking about satisfying your man in the bedroom. I kid you not. That would be more than I could handle. Into the church, i do, i do, out in an hour, I could do if pushed , but a day and a half of that ?

Like the original poster, we have been together the guts of a decade and living togther for about 7 years since we were starting college, we have bought a house etc.... and managed a household and finances for quite some time. I would very much doubt they could tell us anything new.

I don't think these courses should be mandatory.

Ricardo is right by the way, my Sister decided to get married by her parish priest but not in her parish church. The church cose 400 Euro because it wasn't her own parish.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
So for the sake of doing a days course, you'd change the religion you've had since birth (probably). Since the church is as stubborn as a mule even when it knows its wrong and never admits it. I doubt that it would work. Just find a church where the priest doesn't require you to do the course. Only about 50% of them do. Of course they usually charge you for getting married in a church thats not your own parish.

I know of someone who wanted to marry a CoI person but they wanted an RC ceremony. The priest refused so they informed him that if he didn't marry them they would go for the CoI ceremony and also bring up the kids in the CoI, said priest backed down very quickly.

Actually change religion? No, but don't be afraid to use it as a bargaining tool

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Silent Bob
I know of someone who wanted to marry a CoI person but they wanted an RC ceremony. The priest refused so they informed him that if he didn't marry them they would go for the CoI ceremony and also bring up the kids in the CoI, said priest backed down very quickly.

Actually change religion? No, but don't be afraid to use it as a bargaining tool

Guess it depends on the priest...

jesus_thats_gre

So let me get this straight, some priests will not marry you if do not do the course? Its starting to sound like organised crime or something. How much is this course by the way, and does the Parish get any money from it.

Our man in Havana

Ricardo is right by the way, my Sister decided to get married by her parish priest but not in her parish church. The church cose 400 Euro because it wasn't her own parish.

Just cut out the church altogether and have a registry office wedding. Max charge €50. No premarriage course and best of all no God stuff either. Doubt you could buy off a priest for that?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
So let me get this straight, some priests will not marry you if do not do the course? Its starting to sound like organised crime or something. How much is this course by the way, and does the Parish get any money from it.

Money spent on wedding 5-20K. Money spent on course €100. So its more important to look good than to do it properly. Ah I see. If you think the religious side of it isn't worth the money then why don't you do it the registery office. Which is much more honest thing to do if your not into religion. I have much more respect for people who decide to do this. Its your free will to get married. You don't have to do it.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Ah I see. If you think the religious side of it isn't worth the money then why don't you do it the registery office.

Because there are two parties to a marriage and one of them might want to have the whole religious thing done

Eden

Okay, first of all, to Ricardo, Silent Bob, and quigs Snr, thanks for actually having opinions and adding to the discussion. And to mojomaker, Gordon and Milltown. If you want to insult people (or in Mojomakers case, complaining about his cheap deodarant) try a Spam forum.
Anyway...
Silent Bob's right. There are 2 people in a marriage, one of whom may be more religious than the other. In my case I have to consider my deeply religious family (esp my mum, who means the world to me). They wouldn't understand why I would choose to have a wedding without the involvement of the church. And after all, traditionally the wedding doesn't just join 2 people together, but 2 families too.
And like I already said, I'm not the most fabulous Catholic in the world, but I do think that weddings should be spiritual, as well as being a legal contract.
We're seeing the priest tomorrow, he's coming to our house. Anyone know what kind of bikkies priests like?
So we should have a better idea of church requirements tomorrow.
I also want to clear up two things.
1- I'm not against spending money! But I am against spending money on something which may be unnecessary.
2- The only reason I seemed negative about this issue is that I haven't heard anything good about this course. It's hard to be enthusiastic if all you hear from others is how awful the whole thing is.

Gordon

Eden cop on, thanks.

I wish you luck with whatever you choose.

RicardoSmith

I thought the course was ok my wife didn't. But then I was ok with not doing it, but she wasn't. Our Priest didn't say we had to do it but he strongly recommended it. We didn't do it in our own parish so it wasn't a revenue making exercise for the parish. At the end of the day the course is not a lot of money and its another reaffirmation to yourself and your partnert that you are fully committed to the reasons behind getting married. Whatever they are.

solaris

Some friends of mine attended a weekend pre-marriage course in Galway. The same crowd run weekend courses in Dublin too. My friends had lived together for about 7 years before the course, and are not particularly religious. However, despite the time they had already spent together, they said they were surprised how much they got out of the course. Being a weekend course, it was also quite sociable.

DriftingRain

I think they are old and outdated. But if you feel you should attend one then attend it. You've been doing well so far, why let someone tell you what your doing wrong? You must be doing things right to have gotten as far ahead as you have(meaning owning your own home and getting a chance to save for the wedding you want). Anyhow good Luck.

embee

A course to get married indeed.
Lmao.
Do ya get a certificate at the end?
Or a statistical probability on whether youll get a divorce?
Madness.
Tell the priest to fook away off with himself.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by embee
A course to get married indeed.
Lmao.
Do ya get a certificate at the end?
Or a statistical probability on whether youll get a divorce?
Madness.
Tell the priest to fook away off with himself.

Wise and considered words of wisdom. Could you expand on some of those points "embee"? In particular how you think asking the PP to marry you, use the church and go "fook" yourself all in the one conversation is going to work...

embee

A priest refusing to marry a couple cos they wont do a course.
Damn right Id tell him to fook off if it was me.
Why does anyone need an affirmation to get married?
Either its right or its not.
Oh, and Ricardo - back off mkay?

Beruthiel

well this thread has gone as far as it's going to
'tis a shame you people cannot have a discussion without becoming aggressive/abusive
B

smiles

Right, Eden, you want to have a Catholic wedding despite the fact that you are not a practising Catholic by your own admission and you seem to just want to the pomp of the ceremony. Fair enough.

First of all, to Embee who's getting upset at the priest for not marrying them if they wont do the course I think Eden hasn't evem asked if they _have_ to do it yet, so don't jump on that score.

Many priests and parishes require you to do it, it's about discussing married matters in a practical sense, as well as the catholic future of your marriahe and possible / existing children. I know that the course can be as informal as a chat one evening with your priest, talk to him and see.

My take on it is that if you're not a practising Catholic then you shouldnt be allowed a church wedding. (personal view) Treatening them with changing your religion is a stupid and ignorant way to go about things.

If you want a Catholic ceremony, and it is a Catholic ceremony if you are getting married in a Catholic church then you need to do what is necessary to comply with the ideas of that church.

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