Speed cameras - was it really you ???

fenris · 19-09-2003 10:58am #1

One of the lads on the Motorcycle Ireland list had an interesting experience a few months ago, - points in the post for the M50, he knew it couldnt be him as he was buying petrol in sandymount within a few minutes of the gatso time and had a credit card receipt for the petrol.

So he requested a copy of the picture and discovered that the car in the picture was the same make / colour but was a hatchback where as his car was a salon.

Aparently a growing trend is for nice people to see a car similar to their own and get a copy of the other cars number plate made up. The cops mostly just check to make sure that the number plate matches the make/mode of the car. So very little chance of being caught.

Moral of the story - It may not be you !!!

p.pete · 19-09-2003 11:11am

Not quite sure I follow how that one works - is the number plate not taken directly from the camera? how is the switch taking place / who is switching it?

Our man in Havana · 19-09-2003 11:29am

Originally posted by p.pete
Not quite sure I follow how that one works - is the number plate not taken directly from the camera? how is the switch taking place / who is switching it?

Simple, You see a car similar to yours same make same model and you note down the number. Off to the motor factors and ask for a plate to be made with your stolen number. Stick it on your car and off you go speeding and wrecking an innocent persons licence.

This has been going on in london with the congestion charge. One bloke got nailed when he used a number off a cop car.

Our man in Havana · 19-09-2003 11:29am

Originally posted by fenris
One of the lads on the Motorcycle Ireland list had an interesting experience a few months ago, - points in the post for the M50, he knew it couldnt be him as he was buying petrol in sandymount within a few minutes of the gatso time and had a credit card receipt for the petrol.

So he requested a copy of the picture and discovered that the car in the picture was the same make / colour but was a hatchback where as his car was a salon.

Aparently a growing trend is for nice people to see a car similar to their own and get a copy of the other cars number plate made up. The cops mostly just check to make sure that the number plate matches the make/mode of the car. So very little chance of being caught.

Moral of the story - It may not be you !!!

Did he get the ticket struck out?

p.pete · 19-09-2003 11:46am

f-in dastards! should be a jail sentence attached to doing something like that....

fenris · 19-09-2003 12:04pm

Yep ticket went away !!!

Victor · 19-09-2003 2:38pm

It's quite common in the North, expecially with stolen cars, they steal a car, forge the papers and add a registration plate of an identical car.

Our man in Havana · 19-09-2003 2:42pm

Originally posted by Victor
It's quite common in the North, expecially with stolen cars, they steal a car, forge the papers and add a registration plate of an identical car.

Is it difficult for the owner of the stolen number to get out of speeding fines and parking tickets?

Victor · 19-09-2003 2:50pm

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Is it difficult for the owner of the stolen number to get out of speeding fines and parking tickets?

The piece I saw in a paper (can't remmeber which one) was the PSNI saying they were having 20 people a month coming into them saying - "I just saw someone driving my car, except it wasn't my car, because I was in my car". Not sure what the ticketing situation was like.

fenris · 19-09-2003 3:03pm

All they really have is a picture of one of a few hundred thousand cars like yours with a number plate that matches yours. But our wonderfull legal system has been warped to place the burden of proof on you, to prove your innocence rather than on the Gardai to prove your guilt.

Bearing in mind anybody who clones a number plate is doing it because the intend on blasting through speed cameres !!!

So the chances are that you are probably screwed if it happens to you, and arguing the case will probably just get you more points more fine and years of grief from the cops for being a smartarse !!!

e.g. if you got a letter today accusing you of speeding on the M50 at 23:47 on 29/5/03 could you prove it wasn't you ?

Unless you were out of the country at the time you couldn't say it wasn't you but you would still get done for not revealing who the driver of the car was !!!

GerardKeating · 19-09-2003 3:57pm

Originally posted by p.pete
f-in dastards! should be a jail sentence attached to doing something like that....

There is, but you have to catch them first, which is difficult...

DMC · 19-09-2003 4:38pm

One nail to put in this scam is, if you are stopped by the guards while speeding, i.e. caught by a hairdryer and nabbed by a guard up the road. He'll ask you for your licence, and take the number of the car. Screwed.

Now for the Gatso, it only takes pics from behind, as you have passed them, so it only picks up the rear of the car. My car has two identifiable stickers on the back, so they and the reg would show up on any snap.

My tip; maybe take a snap of the back of your car, with a newspaper or something that can identify the date of the picture. A hole in this tip could be that someone could dig up a paper that's a few months old.

gurramok · 19-09-2003 5:57pm

Can speed cameras take pics in the dark ?
Especially on roads with no lighting ?

Or does t depend on a garda with a handheld detector to catch you ?

Snaga · 19-09-2003 6:09pm

They have a flash. Manys the time im coming the opposite direction at night as some car tears through..... *flash* *flash* points in the post.

ai ing · 19-09-2003 6:13pm

those cameras got a flah on them - just the other day the poor guy in front of me got snapped - first time i had seen the flash so i assume it would work at night

Guy:Incognito · 22-09-2003 10:40am

Originally posted by ai ing
those cameras got a flah on them - just the other day the poor guy in front of me got snapped - first time i had seen the flash so i assume it would work at night

Y is he a "poor guy", he was breaking the law. is sum scumbag being dragged out of a shop by the guards for stealing also a "poor guy"?

JohnBoy · 22-09-2003 10:48am

Originally posted by DMC
One nail to put in this scam is, if you are stopped by the guards while speeding, i.e. caught by a hairdryer and nabbed by a guard up the road. He'll ask you for your licence, and take the number of the car. Screwed.

Now for the Gatso, it only takes pics from behind, as you have passed them, so it only picks up the rear of the car. My car has two identifiable stickers on the back, so they and the reg would show up on any snap.

My tip; maybe take a snap of the back of your car, with a newspaper or something that can identify the date of the picture. A hole in this tip could be that someone could dig up a paper that's a few months old.

Good idea, the only flaw being what you said that you can always dig out an old paper.

The workaround is to send a few copies of the photo to yourself by registerd post and don't open them till you need to (in the presence of a garda)

It's a simple method of proving prior art in patent situations. come up with an idea and mail it to yourself by registered post, don't open it and keep it on file for future litigation

John

Da Man · 22-09-2003 4:33pm

I've never had the pleasure of getting caught by a camera, but I'm almost certain it also takes a picture of the front of the car. How can you otherwise identify the driver in case of a dispute? This is essentially why this number plate forging thing isn't going to bite you, because if the driver isn't somebody you know then it's up to the police to figure out who it is.

The licence plate number is on the tax disc and on the insurance disc, so it's pretty easy verify at a checkpoint.

John R · 23-09-2003 2:09am

All the fixed cameras in Ireland photograph the rear of the car. There are more recent designs that face oncoming traffic used in the UK but these use infra-red so do not have flashes. Setting off a flash in the face of drivers (especially speeding ones) is dangerous and if it resulted in a collision would be very compelling grounds for a law suit. If the camera is set off by oncoming traffic on the opposite lane then it is either a fake camera or a faulty one. Even if you were charged because of a car speeding in the opposite direction your speed can be proved by the road markings, the distance travelled in the set time between the two pictures can be used to determine the speed. This is also the reason why "real" cameras flash twice.

pclancy · 23-09-2003 10:26am

remember tho, only a few of the cameras in dublin have film in them at any time so even if they flash it doesnt mean you've been caught for sure till u get that lovely letter in the post!

DMC · 23-09-2003 12:58pm

Yep, of the 8 or so Gatso cameras in Louth/Meath, only one of them has film in it at any one time. They rotate them every week or so.

pclancy · 23-09-2003 1:04pm

http://www.speedtraps.ie.nu/ has details on a lot of the stuff they use over here. Actually thought the site was taken down by the cops but its still there now. I remember reading something, maybe there or somewhere else that if the vents on the back of the camera are open then there's a film in it and if they're closed it is empty. Dunno tho.

Silent Bob · 24-09-2003 9:21am

Originally posted by DMC
My tip; maybe take a snap of the back of your car, with a newspaper or something that can identify the date of the picture. A hole in this tip could be that someone could dig up a paper that's a few months old.

How is this any help? After all you don't know the date/time of the speeding incident, the first you know of it is when you get the fine in the post.

DMC · 24-09-2003 10:14am

And the envelope with the offending speed snap would have a post frank on it.

As JohnBoy pointed out, you could send your picture of the back of the car via registered post, and only open it in the presence of a guard.

So therefore, it would be between those two dates.

I remember reading something, maybe there or somewhere else that if the vents on the back of the camera are open then there's a film in it and if they're closed it is empty. Dunno tho.

Na, its more likely that there is film in it if the flash is working, in this country anyway.

Imposter · 24-09-2003 10:30am

Originally posted by DMC
And the envelope with the offending speed snap would have a post frank on it.

As JohnBoy pointed out, you could send your picture of the back of the car via registered post, and only open it in the presence of a guard.

So therefore, it would be between those two dates.

Na, its more likely that there is film in it if the flash is working, in this country anyway.

And stickers are removable. What's to stop someone predending a sticker is stuck on, taking the picture, taking away the sticker and only reapplying it when caught?

Speed cameras - was it really you ???

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