Is society as screwed as it's construed to be?

Mystic Fibrosis

We all know the spiel about corruption in politcs, and societal inequality, etc, blah blah blah. But to you, does society seem as doomed as the mass media say it is? (which is quite ironic...)

Think about it, I mean, for such a "bad" system we've got here, it seems to be pretty self-sustaining. But on the other hand, maybe I'm just believing what I hear....

mentalimplosion

when more than ninety percent of the world's wealth is owned by one percent of the people, i think we're screwed

when secretaries of the environment are former oil chieftains, i think we're screwed

when we purposely screw the third world countries, rape them of their commoditites and leave them dying in the hot african sun, i think we're screwed

when our own government thinks that new toy plane for bertie is more important than the lives of starving homeless people, i think we're screwed.

when the world's richest, most powerful country is morphing into an Orwellian state, i think we're screwed.


just a couple of thoughts.

Crash

Er, ***, no we arent.

as the old saying goes no news is good news, as invariably any news is gonna be bad media coverage. The ratio of good media coverage to bad coverage would be at LEAST 1:10 if not magnitudes higher. its the same way that all you hear about dublin at night are muggings, stabbings etc. however i find dublin city/suburb areas Very peaceful if you're a wee bit careful. its going to **** but not half as bad as its made out to be.

Then again, **** it, i'm the eternal optimist. eternal Paranoid optimist....not quite sure how that works...


Neil

Spenguin

I ask anyone who posts in this thread complaining about all the problems in the world if they are going to do anything about it? Yeah, we have a society that works partly by doing things that will lead to its own demise, but if we just complain about it we'll just be wasting the small amount of time we have left. If you do something about it, good for you. But things are getting better, they have started to use cars fueled by hydrogen and I hear the holes in the ozone layer are getting smaller!
I don't think we should complain about our society, which in my opinion, has had a lot of progress over the last... while.

mentalimplosion

alison, you know me. c'mon, i spent a good deal of time in ctyi shouting at people for using animal tested products or wearing slave-labour produced clothes or thinking that deep down maybe george bush ain't so bad or for thinking that we in the first world deserve yet more rriches and glory instead of giving a little to the people in all the countries that have sub-standard housing, all the people who don't have running/clean water, food, clothing etc. i spend half of life figuring out schmemes to get the world out of this hole we're digging

Aliminator

good luck to ya.. seriously.
i'll be amazed if ur not 'silenced' within 5years.

Spenguin

I like digging holes. I know you. George Bush was born in Texas.

mentalimplosion

thank you, that's not the first time i've been warned about the ''silencings''. oh, since this seems like an appropriate time, pluggity plug plug for my email newsletter 'the whiner'. if there's something you wanna whine about write it down and email me etc.

Spenguin

I don't think just shouting at people will help our environment that much, I doubt that they'll care enough to listen to you ana. Maybe you should put more than just complaints in your thingy.

Mystic Fibrosis

Nah, they just dont care. Period.

Dalamar

Yes, it's quite screwed. The world trade talks are basicly a facade for countries trying to screw more money from each other by threats or bribes, and as always, third world country's lose out.

Don't believe me? Why is that all coffee we can get is made by countries in the economic north?

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/4.html

America's method for dealing with terrorists. They only started this because they (the terrorists) only crime was to give them a swift old-fasioned kick in the nads. Or in this case, commerical centre.

I wonder why? Is it due to fact america has it's big fat ass stuck in the middle east for quite some time? And a lot of other countries aswell.<sarcasm>And they certainly don't have plans for all that oil</sarcasm>

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/1.html

Ireland's society is screwed as well, considering the amount of abuse people can get for no apperent reason.

And the fact a lot of the youth seem to only care about getting hammered on cheap beer as often as possible.

Mystic Fibrosis

Originally posted by Dalamar


And the fact a lot of the youth seem to only care about getting hammered on cheap beer as often as possible.

It's not even funny how infuriating I find that. It's not even remotely entertaining.

lordsippa

I find that todays youths tend to be far too whingey and bitch about complete crap far too often.

<troll> :ninja:

tibilt

just curious...you actually think that complaining, shouting about using animal testing products and whatnot is 'doing something' about anything?that is self-righteous pretentious bull****.and dont give me any bull about whether i do anything for the ****ing enviorment. this isnt a ****ing popularity contest, this is Our society. this is where we have to live. this is out life. if we dont like it, its up to us to change it. and complaining about it changes nothing. its a cop-out. and telling other people they should do something about it(i.e. stop using animal testing) is a self-righteous cop-out. and i dont ****ing care whether you use animal tested products or not. not using the products is not going to stop the testing. its just going to give you that pathetic feeling of satisfaction for 'doing the right thing' when your warped sense of values actually has no idea what the right thing is anymore. you got something against animal testing, join the protests. better still, go destroy a lab, that will make you a hero. and thats all you want isnt it? to be seen as a hero. to be seen as a do-gooder.try being who you are. **** society and make what You want of life. the right thing is whatever you want it to be.

Havelock

Tibilt: The 100th Monkey, go look it up.
What gives you the right to attack others actions, not everyone is an activist, some believe in law and order so try to change throught education, the fact that you and I are aware of the terrible things in the world doesn't mean everyone else does. You may be surprized at the ignorance of important issues by the mass of the population. They know more about the actors in their favourite TV shows than the government in their country and they know even less about world affairs. So if you can inform and educate, you are still doing something. And you don't do it to feel better about your self or see your self in a better light, most do good for the sake of good. Not all actions are self interested.

On the orginala topic of the thread, I think there is a lot of true evil in this world, people and organisations, who know right from wrong, the pros and cons, weight them up and chose what ever makes them gain the most and be damned everyone else. They are usally in possistions of power as they ruthless and use any means to seceed while better people say at lower levels of autority.
But there is also alot of good in the world, people who become teachers, doctors and those who try to make the world a better place.
A good primary school teacher, impacts the development of 30 small people a year at least, those 30 children may develop into 30 good people, and only a small amount will turn bad in adolence and adulthood. So the good out weights the bad.

Yes the world does seem very messed up at the moment, a massive military superpower, faces corrupt governments and bickering interntional neighbours, WMD's are easily home built, violence is rampant in the world and despair grows.
But there is no superwar yet, for all the easy and capeablity to make weapons of mass distruction, there is no daily annilaltions, the police here still don't need to normally carry firearms, people still laugh and sing to them selves.
There is love in world, their is spirt and hope and I think it lives in everyone, even those who make the bad choices, they are human and venrable too. Have faith in your selves. I'll never admit it again but I'm choking up here, we can do any thing we want, lets do good.

tibilt

i need look nothing up to make decisions for myself.i was attacking no one. i was merely pointing out obvious hypocrises. of course there is good in the world, but anyone who 'informs' others of the bad is merely transcending the responsibility to alliviate the bad onto another. people who really want to do good do good, they dont tell others how to. and dont use this forum to pick at me again alex.

ll=llannah

i am well versed when it comes to bitching about the state of society. . . i live in america, for god's sake. But complaining about it and forecasting the demise of humankind due to whatever combonation of crap you want to blame it on doesn't get us anywhere, and ....*surprise surprise* ...doesn't fix a goddamn thing. it only makes us pessimistic and will accentuate the fact that we feel like we are living in a world slowly becoming devoid of any humanity.
But there's hope. (And by hope I do not mean maybe if we all kill ourselves we'll get transported to a bubbly world of lollipops and rainbows where there are chocolate swimming pools.) It's life. So we'll find a way. Cause we don't have much of a choice, now do we? Or maybe Neil's optimism has rubbed off on me.
And it's NOT about making OURselves feel better about what we do or don't do, for ffs. Its about giving the whole making-the-world-a-more-decent-place-for-the-kids-to-come thing a whirl. And not necessarily by dedicating your life to working in soup kitchens or knitting hats for homeless people or never eating any meat again in your life or deciding to be Mother Teresa II. But by just trying to be a decent person and putting your two cents in when you feel its needed and fighting for what you believe it, dammit.
And there are plenty of people left who are doing that and will continue to, even if there are ***holes out there who just happen to be in power. There will always be the occasional stupid or deranged person in power. Until we have an accurate way to test intelligence, sanity and morals and prevent them from gaining power if the candidates fail horribly, that is.
The world is a constantly shifting and changing place, because the people in it change. There are bound to be ups and downs. I'm not saying that everything is peachy and that we shouldn't care about important issues, I'm just saying that, for the love of god, if we sit around on our asses predicting the day that the last piece of humanity will crumble, we really WILL be screwed.

Havelock

Tibilt, that was not a personal attack I was pointing out something to you. I thought the 100th Monkey theory may intrest you.
[Troll]
You may wish to look into this victimisation complex of yours.
[/Troll]

Lighten Up a bit.

tibilt

twixgirl is absolutely right, we should have an acurate way to test the sanity, intelligence and whatnot of those in power.but the problem is, all elections that really matter, are won by propeganda.all of the people that could really make a difference in the world are elected by way of a popularity contest, meaning whoever had the most money to pay for the best pr guy, will be president.
but that doesnt have to mean we are screwed. we dont have to overthrow those in power. we dont even have to protest about them. all we can do is be good decent people. live out our lives whatever way makes us happy. that doesnt mean going against the system, or trying to undermine society. it just means making what we want out of what we have, instead of bitching about what we could have if someone did something about it.

Stark

Things are bad but then again things have always been bad in the history of mankind. A look at "gangs of new york" for example will show you that gangs of knackers aren't just a modern phenononem. Wars have always existed. The romans conquered half the world and fought slaves against each other (although they still seem sane on the whole compared to the us). Whatever about society being screwed, it's self-sustaining. Evil will always exist but so will good. If you try to weed out the evil you get an animal farm effect, ie: concepts such as democracy or communism or socialism or capitalism will never give you a society free of evil. You'll still have right-winged politics, the kind people will gasp and say "that's evil" but will still vote for in a secret ballot because they want their lower priced oil and coffee and economic success for the north at the south's expense. Like the simpsons says: "Despite what your concience says, deep down you want a cold hearted republican to rule you like a king"

tibilt

i have no victimization complex havelock. i was simply pointing out that picking at other peoples arguements changes absolutely nothing.

Havelock

If we were to view socity as a pyriamid (spelt wrong I know), with the leaders at the top, the changing of a cap stone doesn't change the base of the building nor does it cause the construction to collapse. We can't only lay the blame on leaders, our own selfishness contributes too. How often do walk past a person who is begging, adn don't give them the money you don't need? There are lots of small things we do that make it a bad place, all i can hope for is that I may do more good things than bad.

tibilt

a beggar lying on the street does not deserve your money. if they truly were in need, they would help themselves. that is human nature. if they were truly dying of hunger, they would work for money. they are using guilt against you because they know the the large amount of people walking by will feel the need to help another.
good cannot exist without evil. if there were no evil, there would be no measure by which we could consider something good. without evil in the world, we would have nothing. they will always be constants of society. all we can do is try and make the good outweigh the evil.

Havelock

They may not deserve it, but it is hardly a reason not to be kind. Ok I agree that some of them are parasidic and worthless lazy bastards, but still. The point I tried to make in my last post is that we are all to blame, not just our government system, or leaders, but we the people.

Stark

You're not supposed to give money to beggers, it only keeps them where they are (it's also one of the dangers of giving too much food aid and not enough development aid to 3rd world countries). You're supposed to support organizations like the Simon community instead. Ex-homeless people will tell you this.

Havelock

You learn something new everyday. I'll just give a tenner to the Simon community instead.

Aliminator

From the fingers of k.oriordan
You're not supposed to give money to beggers, it only keeps them where they are (it's also one of the dangers of giving too much food aid and not enough development aid to 3rd world countries).

yeh, but at least food aid is somewhat usuable. ok, it's normally GM food, stuffed with various new drugs and what not.

however, development aid is a real kick in da balls. here's $50million. but u MUST and CAN ONLY spend it on expensive tech from our country that u can't operate, and will break down in abou 3months cos u can't afford spare parts of skilled labourers.

in theory dev. aid is great. but in practice it rarely works.

at the end of the day, bithcin' does nothing. get to a place of prominence, and then bitch and do something. don't waste ur efforts now. u'll get tired and broken by the time u really COULD do something.

mentalimplosion

Originally posted by tibilt
i have no victimization complex havelock. i was simply pointing out that picking at other peoples arguements changes absolutely nothing.

yet you picked at my argument and give a lecture... the human mind baffles me.

and i know that me shouting doesn't change a whole lot but imo shouting and not being heard is better than not shouting at all... (i was quoted in a tabloid as saying that. *shudder*)

It wasn't me!

Are you saying that homeless people need to be starving and dying beforre they need help? Or are you saying that even if they were starving and dying you wouldn't help them because there's always something they can do for themselves? Either way you come off as a cold-hearted prick! It's almost impossible for homeless people to get money:

1, Because you need an address to draw the dole.
2, Because nowhere will employ a homeless person.

Would you rather they turned to mugging or dealing drugs as opposed to begging, which is harmless.

tibilt

well thats just it isnt it? either way you come off a cold hearted prick. and that is the vicious cycle that Keeps people on the streets. they know that there are people who will give them money even if only to save face in the eyes of society. they dont need to be starving and dying, dont be so dramatic.there is always help. they can go to the simon community, who can organize dole, and if nothing else get them a job. there is always a way to help yourself. things that live off other things are commonly known as parasites.

tibilt

Originally posted by mentalimplosion
yet you picked at my argument and give a lecture... the human mind baffles me.

and i know that me shouting doesn't change a whole lot but imo shouting and not being heard is better than not shouting at all... (i was quoted in a tabloid as saying that. *shudder*)

i did not pick at your arguement. i posed a question based on your arguement.
you are fundamentally right. trying and failing is better than not trying at all. but shouting and complaining gets you nowhere. complaining about society will only serve to fuel your own distaste for it. shouting, whether heard or not, accomplishes nothing.

mentalimplosion

yeah, but it makes one feel like they are doing something to change the world. if everyone (well, not everyone) did this, standards and expectations would be naturally raised and people like me would feel like they're cruel and heartless so they'd do more to help the world

tibilt

well im glad it makes people feel good. everyone should be allowed to feel good. or else life wouldn't be worth living. but if people want to change something, complaining is not going to do it. and raising standards so that other feel cruel and useless is cruel and useless. it is simply a global version of the alpha male theory, which is unfair and unjust. and human nature's own thirst to better itself is the problem in the first place. our quest to make this planet 'better' is what is destroying it in the first place, on both the enviormental and social level.

Aliminator

from the fingers of tibilt
our quest to make this planet 'better' is what is destroying it in the first place, on both the enviormental and social level.

our? OUR?? no. the west's.
and a side point on homelessness. the simon community shouldn't need any of our money. this is a rich country, recently £20million was given to the GAA for some stadium. fuk hte stadium and use that for homeless shelters etc.
going back to one of my equations in another thread. money is evil. by hte time a good-intentioned person gets enough money to do something in the world, their spirit has been broken, and their will to do something torn away. as long as money rules, there is no hope for hte future.

side note. being happy is good, and one of the points of living

s0l

I'm going to get my kicks before the whole ****house goes up in flames, ***!!!!!!!!!

But on a more serious note. yes we're all being ****ed in the ass. do we (we = the populace, not *you*) care? **** no! why? because it dosent effect us! when will we care? when it does effect us! when will that happen? never!

Everyones ****ing everyone else in the ass and i think i'm devolping some kind of alcohol dependancy! Weeeeee!
I hope to be a journalist or a camera man some day! but they'll silence me! oh no. oh arse, you people have any idea of the kind of global activism it will take to change things? think you're going to see it in your life time? my life line says not to me, don't know about you. Create a legacy.

and ***, If you can't be famous, be infamous!

Dalamar

One problem there Aliminator, the money for the stadium has already been spent..

Barry Aldwell

/me walks up, dressed MIB style

Society? Screwed? No. Everything is normal. Michael Moore is a hypocrite and...erm...is Osama Bin Laden in disguise. Now return to your houses and places of interest. Nothing to see here. Don't make me call the cleanup team. You'd be suprised how quickly some nuclear waste can magically appear.

Aliminator

Originally posted by Dalamar
One problem there Aliminator, the money for the stadium has already been spent..

i know that. i simply saying that with a little foresight from our politicians, homelessness could be tackled, and further homelessness PREVENTED. but no. this, like every other captialist *cough-facist-cough* country does not think ahead about social problems, only election winning (transport links or small things) projects.

only if learned and broad-minded individuals like ourselves ever got into politics (and didn't die from the mind-numbing boring-ness of it), could something be done about homelessness on a REAL scale.
enuff ranting outta me

mentalimplosion

forsight is not what was needed, common ****ing sense would have worked

tibilt

i used 'ours' as a general term for all of society/ the west cannot be blamed for the funadamental flaws in society alim. george bush is used as a blaming post far too often for problems whose roots are in society as a whole, not in our leaders.

tibilt

Originally posted by Aliminator

only if learned and broad-minded individuals like ourselves ever got into politics (and didn't die from the mind-numbing boring-ness of it), could something be done about homelessness on a REAL scale.
enuff ranting outta me

as learned and broad-minded as you may be alim, you have absolutely no grasp of politics. our 'capitalist' society allows us the freedom to say and do what we like, but it does not leave room for any real change. that is the same with all politics. only change that will aid the government in some way will be implemented, otherwise the beauracrats who so capably run our country simply ignore.

mentalimplosion

Originally posted by tibilt
. our 'capitalist' society allows us the freedom to say and do what we like, but it does not leave room for any real change. that is the same with all politics.

eh... no. in parts of the US (can't remember which states) high school students are ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED to rat on students who are making anti-american statments. it's the closest thing to the Thought Police. i don't call that freedom of speech

Aliminator

tibilt:

'say and do what we like?' are u serious? no. we can not say and do what we like and hope to get anywhere in life.
i'm sorry, but the west (i use that as i am half-turkish, and of a different religion. i know i don't always act like it, but still, one gets a bit of a broader scope on life) does have social flaws, magnified by the politicians and 'persons behind closed doors,' to ensure that the life the politicians want remains. we do not have freedom of speech. this is facist, instead of jews, the oppressed are 3rd world and those who do not share the same view and power.
and yes, currently i have no grasp of politics. but when i get my mind back, i will be up for true debates.

tibilt

first of all alim, dont be so arrogant when you dont know what your talkng about. i was referring to the freedoms we are pacified with in this ever so facist society. of course you cant get ahead in life saying and doing what you want, but thats just the vicious cycle of the life we all seem to get stuck with. doing something we hate in order to get by. il apologize if i would prefer not to waste my life on something so trivial. i prefer to say and do what i want, regardless of the society structure i am forcibly grounded with. of course i conform to the fundamental codes of morals and ethics, but i simply refuse to waste my life in self-inflicted torment because thats the way it is. and if you truly believe in these funamental philosphies of the corrupt and helpless society, being of a different religion should matter not, alim, for although we all share different religions, we all share the same society. but i agree with you on about the unfair system of tiers in our society, leaving the 3rd world at the bottom, so that those in power stay in power. this is unfair and unjust, but bitching about it will solve nothing alim.

ll=llannah

yes, i agree that bitching doesn't get us anywhere...
but bitching about society is what this thread boils down to, isn't it?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

tibilt

pessimistic, though bleakly accurate. though the individual can live if it chooses to. it is all a matter of choice. that is what makes us who we are and that is what makes life worth living. choose to live. you dont have to defy the system, but you dont have to conform to it either. find your niche, find what makes you happy, and embrace the world and all the beauty it contains with eyes wide open.

Aliminator

yes yes. bitchin' solves nothing. sorry to sound that way. i was simply trying to support my claims about society. whatever they were.

Society may be screwed but it’s in built into the system.

indeed. and the system is too rigid and red-taped to be revampt properly. look what happened with communism.
and i'm no rectum ranger.
and yes, the world can be a beautiful place, when one takes the luxury of ignoring problems. like i (and most) so often do.

mentalimplosion

bitching about society can only work if you bitch persistently to the people in power, which i doubt any of us have contact with (excluding lobbying them with letters. it doesn't usually work). but heck, bitching sure passes the time

tibilt

bitching against the people in charge does not work.people in power are trained to ignore bitching. all decsions are made based on a public sentiment drawn from various methods employed by the ignorant overlords of our capitalist paradise.

mentalimplosion

yes, but that's until I get in charge. then we'll see who bitches about whom


capitalist paradise... nice oxymoron.