"Crimes of Passion"

simu

Is the way love is depicted in our society problematic?

The ideas of love lasting forever, people having only one true love and love being worth suffering and dying for are quite pervasive in our society - in films, plays, magazines and so on. For example, Romeo and Juliet are treated as tragic heroes when personally, I think if they had waited a while and come to their senses, they would have got over their crushes on each other and lived on. Of course, acting sensibly does not usually make for very exciting theatre but IMO ideas like these can have a strong effect on people who find out that their relationship is breaking up or who find out that their partner has been unfaithful to them. Furthermore, in extreme cases, could society's views on love not lead to situations where people falsely believe that they have no choice but to kill their partner/commit suicide or both?

People will argue that humans act irrationally in the heat of passion and that this sort of behaviour is intrinsic to human nature but I wonder if the incidence of crimes such as those I mentioned above would be lower in a culture that had a more realistic outlook on "matters of the heart" (i.e. love is great if it's reciprocal but it doesn't always work out that way, love doesn't necessarily last for one's whole life, it's normal to be miserable after breaking up with a partner, there is always a chance of finding someone new etc).

There's a bit of a taboo surrounding the issue. For example, some months ago, a young man in Cork shot his girlfriend and then himself. This was a tragic incident, I don't want to appear insensitive about it and I know it's hard to piece everything together and figure out who consented to what BUT as far as I see it, the couple was breaking up, the young guy decided he couldn't take it and decided to take his life(which he has a right to do, much as I hate the idea of a person taking their own life) and also that of his girlfriend. This last part is what is worrying as there is no way of knowing whether she wanted to die or not. What surprised me about this case was that, afterwards, when the books of condolences were being signed etc, nobody mentioned the fact that there was an essential difference between the two people involved - one person was a murder victim, the other a murderer. There's no point putting a dead person on trial and having the word "murderer" engraved on their tomb but I believe one has to ask questions about this type of incident, unpleasant and all as it may be. It's too easy to dismiss such situations as life imitating tragic art or as some freak occurrence. It's an extreme version of a tendency in society in general towards possessiveness of other people and lack of respect for an individual's autonomy.

I'm not suggesting banning certain plays by Shakespeare here :)but I do think a good dose of realism in matters of human relationships needs to be imparted in families, at school and so on. For example: if somebody says they don't love you anymore, you have to accept it and get on with your own life! If you find out your partner is cheating on you, it certainly is very painful but that does NOT give you the right to kill/injure said partner! Jealousy and paranoia are not features of a normal, healthy relationship - if you feel this way, you need help! Briefly, "crimes of passion" are not romantic or thrilling or tragic (as TV documentaries etc suggest) - they are absurd, pitiful, horrendous acts and nobody should forget that!

Just some of my thoughts on the matter, am curious to know what others think. Maybe you think I exaggerate but I whenever I hear about crimes of this nature, I am sickened at the waste involved and although such extreme behaviour is rare, it is still common enough to be a feature of life in this (and many other) countries.




P.S. I used the incident in Cork as an example, the point here is not to discuss the finer details of that case but rather, the more general theme of "crimes of passion".

Havelock

In France it was a sort of rule of thumb that evveryone got one crime of passion, as in if you found another person in bed with your lover, if you killed the interloper or both, you where likly to get off any serious punishment.

I do believe in deeper loves, and true love. I am a romantic and melodramitic at heart. I find the idea of crimes of passion quite justified, not killing your partner, but the interloper, after a suitable amount of mental and physical torture.

Kambika

What annoys me is that people think the more you suffer the more you love someone. If a woman/man is treated bad or is not happy in a relationship and they stay you hear people saying 'she/he must love her/him so much'. In fact this often doesnt have anything to with love anymore in my opinion. Same with so called crimes in passion. I dont find that romantic nor heroic, just plain stupid. And as you already said about Romeo & Juliet, after a while they would have probably gotten tired from each other and found another partner. And in my eyes ****ing up your own life because of someone else you cant call love.

simu

I find the idea of crimes of passion quite justified, not killing your partner, but the interloper, after a suitable amount of mental and physical torture.

Your joking, I hope?

If not, this is what I was getting at - the idea that suffering extreme emotional anguish at someone's hands justifies criminal acts.

exCrumlinBoyo

quote:

---

I find the idea of crimes of passion quite justified, not killing your partner, but the interloper, after a suitable amount of mental and physical torture.

---

What about the people in relationships having affairs with people who don't know that the girl/guy their banging are either married or in a relationship. Do they deserve to die? No they don't , they think they are the only person banging this girl/guy and have no idea they are in a relationship , they are innocent so what you say above is BS mate !

Believe me if I found some guy banging my wife , It would take a lot for me not to kick them both to death , I'm not sure if I would be that strong ! and I hope I never find out either !:ninja:

Evil Phil

Originally posted by Havelock
I find the idea of crimes of passion quite justified, not killing your partner, but the interloper, after a suitable amount of mental and physical torture.

Because you partner is guilty of betraying you or anything.

Havelock

How angry would any of you to be to find the love of your life with some one else. Yes the relationship is over as of that moment, but all that anger. Where could you direct it? Not your ex, thats unhealthy. But the other one, considering he had to know. It was his choice to make. Brutal short life expectancy to expected after being found. Yes, it is that severe emotional trauma not only justifies (in one's own mind), but is the cause of the most horrendious of criminal acts.

Ask your self honestly would you want to kill them, make them suffer for how they made you feel? Imagine how hurt, bytrayed, unloved, unlovable, how much something was your fault, how unattractive etc. Your fists clench and whiten in the desire for violent revenge, non?

patch

Nah Havelock,
Surely if you find your woman shagging somebody else, then the idea of love that you held for her was fairly one sided.

It takes two to tango, so the best course of action is to tell her to feck off, smack him once or twice for effect, then put it all behind you.

K2

I'm sure most of us at some stage in our lives felt so angry that the thoughts of violence came to us but to actually carry out such acts is a different matter.

And its not necessarly true that a relationship is over if one partner has been unfaithful. I'd admit it would be very difficult to carry on but many people have and will. Mature people will go through various stages - angry, hurt, even depressed but eventually we all get over it and get on with our lives. Whether that be with our unfaithful partners is another matter. Unfortunately some few will take their own lives, I don't know if this is down to immaturity, lack of friends / familys to talk to or whatever but it happens.

Time is the greatest healer of all, it doesn't make things as they were or change what has happened. But the emotional pain you feel will lessen and living will put new people into your life.

The Corinthian

The element of passion in such crimes is often exaggerated. In Italy, they were referred to as delitti d'onore (crimes of honour) and were as often as not quite cold blooded and were only abolished as a separate crime around 1960 although it is still treated as a mitigating factor in a crime, AFAIR.

At the core of a ‘crime of honour’ was not alone that one’s spouse was unfaithful, but that it was publicly known that one’s spouse was unfaithful, thus tarnishing the self-respect and honour of the killer. You still get about one murder of this type a month, generally in southern Italy, reported.

There’s actually a very good comedy that Mastroianni did in 1962 that ridiculed the former law and practice called Divorzio all'italiana (Divorce Italian Style), and would recommend that anyone interested in the psychology and culture behind such crimes watch it.

simu

The element of passion in such crimes is often exaggerated.

That's what I thought too, I get the impression they are referred to in this way because it's less troubling and easier for society to accept. (And thats why I put "cromes of passion" in quotation marks in the title of this thread).

That film sounds interesting, I'll watch out for it. Thanks!

GuanYin

Have you seen Irreversible?

I have to say, if someone did something awful to a loved one, I don't know how I'd react.
I get more annoyed when people I care about are wrong then when it happens to me (and I mean simple things like rude waiters or being shortchanged...I'm very american like that)