40cm dish

joe69151 · 02-09-2003 6:02pm #1

Will a 40cm dish pick up the BBC at 28.2 east?

byte · 02-09-2003 7:01pm

Hmm, it depends on where you are! Im assuming you're in Ireland though. I have seen them working OK in Ireland, you it would to be very accurately aligned. However, I would encourage you to try getting a 60cm "zone2" minidish, as it may be less hassle in long run. The 40cm may work OK during good weather but you could suffer picture breakup during bad weather.

watty · 03-09-2003 9:31am

No good in rain. Even in wales you better with 60cm.

Isn't it 45cm though?

Astra 2D is a bit stronger here than Eurobird, Astra 2A and Astra 2B, but even so an 80cm is better.

Don't forget the dish sizes is slightly less than optimal, more to do with "marketing" the *MINI* concept rather than good engineering choice.

A 70cm or 80cm is not much more space and can be repainted to blend in. The Rain margin is MUCH better.

Though even with 90cm I have in nearly 3 years lost Sky once.

Also a 80cm you can easily add extra LNB on same dish for Astra 19E and Hotbirds 13E to get many good free channels, for a cost of less than 60 Euro if you shop around for LNB and manual switch to suit Digibox

(www.satellite.ie and www.satcure.co.uk are two popular places that do good service and advice selling satellite accesorioes).

spuddy · 03-09-2003 1:49pm

40cm dish works fine for astra 1 even in bad weather (near dublin), so would expect few problems for astra 2.

watty · 03-09-2003 2:54pm

Originally posted by spuddy
40cm dish works fine for astra 1 even in bad weather (near dublin), so would expect few problems for astra 2.

Only *SOME* Astra satellites at 19E. Every satellite is different.

You won't get CNN analog on a 40cm from 19E.

Depends where Joe is and if he *ONLY* wants BBC or everything at 28.2

Take Bytes advice and avoid hassle in long run.

bkehoe · 03-09-2003 6:42pm

The 43cm zone 1 mindish works fine in the south-east at least, on all transponders at 28*E on sky. No dropouts in rain or anything either.

joe69151 · 03-09-2003 7:23pm

thanks.Might try one as i live in waterford.

spuddy · 03-09-2003 9:24pm

Originally posted by watty
Only *SOME* Astra satellites at 19E. Every satellite is different.

You won't get CNN analog on a 40cm from 19E.

Depends where Joe is and if he *ONLY* wants BBC or everything at 28.2

Take Bytes advice and avoid hassle in long run.

But i can, you do get some sparklies on CNN during bad weather, but most of the time its fine

byte · 03-09-2003 10:51pm

I find it hard to believe that a 45cm minidish can pick up Astra 1 as even an 80cm can encounter problems with poor weather. I did however manage to pick up MTV2Pop on Astra1 with the 45cm dish though most other analogue channels were incredibly sparkly, and that was on a good day! I'm in Donegal...

Tony · 03-09-2003 10:52pm

Originally posted by spuddy
40cm dish works fine for astra 1 even in bad weather (near dublin), so would expect few problems for astra 2.

These two satellites have different power levels and different footprints so if you have no problems on one it does not necessarily follow that you will not on the other. I suspect you are watching on analogue which may not necessarily show probelms as readily as digital.

Tony

spuddy · 03-09-2003 11:22pm

Originally posted by Tony
These two satellites have different power levels and different footprints so if you have no problems on one it does not necessarily follow that you will not on the other. I suspect you are watching on analogue which may not necessarily show probelms as readily as digital.

Tony

i'm watching on both analogue and digital, quad lnb feeds various receivers.

i would have thought that with the astra 2 footprint targeted primarily for use with sky digital & therefore targeted primarily on ireland and the uk, surely you would have no more difficulty using a zone 1 dish on it than on astra 1.

watty · 04-09-2003 9:14am

I suspect Spuddy has a generous definition of fine or fortuitously lives at a "peak" on the beams.

45cm dish is the standard for England. Scotland and Ireland the standard is 60cm.

These really are minimums set by "marketing" people. Spuddy may be getting "fine" reception, but going for a less than minimum that just happens to work for a few people is not good practice.

A professional installer will use the "correct" parts, not just what seems to work down the road.

Dishes deterioate due to rust with age too, so a bigger is better in this respect too.

If you get "sparklies" the signal is *REALLY* poor.

On digital a poor signal may not be so readily apparent but below a certian point you will be getting increasing pixellating well before the signal is so poor that there are momentary freezes.

Too big a dish can create problems also with LNB overloading or even the Digibox getting too much signal (seen this on a Grundig box with a 90cm dish! The signal meter actually "wrapped" passed 100% as the dish aligned with meter. On Pace it was near 100% and move slightly reduced it, on the Grundig if it was moved slightly it jumped up from 30% to 90% approx!)

A quad LNB is virtually same sensitivity and S/N as a single nowadays so that is not relevent.

Tony · 04-09-2003 10:17am

Originally posted by spuddy
i'm watching on both analogue and digital, quad lnb feeds various receivers.

i would have thought that with the astra 2 footprint targeted primarily for use with sky digital & therefore targeted primarily on ireland and the uk, surely you would have no more difficulty using a zone 1 dish on it than on astra 1.

A reasonable assumption all things being equal but bear in mind Zone 1 is 45cm not 40, on the east coast this is probably ok with small run of good quality coax but its not best practice which is why sky digital comes with zone 2 dish.

spuddy · 04-09-2003 11:57am

Originally posted by Tony
A reasonable assumption all things being equal but bear in mind Zone 1 is 45cm not 40, on the east coast this is probably ok with small run of good quality coax but its not best practice which is why sky digital comes with zone 2 dish.

A perfectly reasonable assumption, although there is about 60ft of a run, but its top quality stuff. A zone 2 is far more desireable but if you're on a budget, zone 1 dishes can be picked up for next to nothing & as long as you're not too fussy, will do a fine job.

Tony · 04-09-2003 12:10pm

Originally posted by spuddy
A perfectly reasonable assumption, although there is about 60ft of a run, but its top quality stuff. A zone 2 is far more desireable but if you're on a budget, zone 1 dishes can be picked up for next to nothing & as long as you're not too fussy, will do a fine job.

But does the difference in price between zone 1 and zone 2 justify the hassle you may have? Hardly worth it i'd say

Tony

watty · 04-09-2003 2:07pm

If spuddy argues any more for the Zone1 dish in Zone2 (And given that Communication engineers trained to caluclate a "link budget" regard both as marginal, i.e. 50cm and 65cm would be much, much better choices), I'll suspect he has a Garage load of them for sale.

They are very cheap S/H (and new) precisely because people have had to upgrade to a larger dish.

For anyone on West Coast, add in 6 TIMES rainfall of some places Dublinish and add that to "link budget"

More North is worse (i.e. Ballycastle gets less than Dublin even in same weather).

So Donegal is "worst" for signal. It has been on record to rain at least part EVERY DAY in a Year in Donegal. So If I moved to Letterkenny or Malin Head I'd seriously consider 70cm to 80cm rather than the standard "one size fits all" 60cm Zone 2.

If I EVER though I might want Astra 19E and HotBirds 13E also (for less additional HW cost than a Monht of Sky World), then I'd want a 90cm. Lots of good free channels. Even some in English.

chernobyl · 04-09-2003 2:28pm

Originally posted by spuddy
but if you're on a budget

I doubt anyones budget is constrained that much.

byte · 04-09-2003 9:12pm

Originally posted by watty
So Donegal is "worst" for signal. It has been on record to rain at least part EVERY DAY in a Year in Donegal. So If I moved to Letterkenny or Malin Head I'd seriously consider 70cm to 80cm rather than the standard "one size fits all" 60cm Zone 2.

If I EVER though I might want Astra 19E and HotBirds 13E also (for less additional HW cost than a Monht of Sky World), then I'd want a 90cm. Lots of good free channels. Even some in English.

Donegal doesn't rain EVERY day!! It's not that bad! Close though! :rolleyes:

I use Zone 2 for my Sky system, but never get breakup, except on Home & Leisure +1 for some reason though i was led to believe that was something to do with Panny box...

Tony · 04-09-2003 10:08pm

Originally posted by byte
Donegal doesn't rain EVERY day!! It's not that bad! Close though! :rolleyes:

I use Zone 2 for my Sky system, but never get breakup, except on Home & Leisure +1 for some reason though i was led to believe that was something to do with Panny box...

I had exactly that problem with my own Pana

byte · 04-09-2003 11:24pm

Originally posted by Tony
I had exactly that problem with my own Pana

Ah, I knew there was someone else with same problem! I don't think i've noticed the problem on any channel except that one! Anyway, I'm not sure if it's acting up anymore. It seemed OK the last time I watched it.

Sorry for going OT.

spuddy · 04-09-2003 11:53pm

Originally posted by watty
If spuddy argues any more for the Zone1 dish ..., I'll suspect he has a Garage load of them for sale.

...but get them quick, cause this madness must end soooooooooonnnnnn!

Not selling anything I'm afraid, my whole astra 1 system was bought for under a €100. (a zone 1 dish, an amstrad box (drx100, horrible but it works) & a quad LNB) I also was kindly given a couple of analogue receivers. They're all used to feed a home cable network (BBC World, CNBC & Eurosport) It was purely a "see if I could do it" exercise & I'd like to thank watty (you're website was of particular help) & everyone else who posts here for their valuable knowledge.

watty · 05-09-2003 12:05pm

A fellow enthusist! Next step Spuddy is a PC Satellite card!

(I do all kinds of mad Radio/Satellite/TV stuff that I would not however recommend for an ordinary viewer. If I had a 45cm I would have it up and experiment for a while. I gave away my zone 2 dish after about 6 months for a holiday caravan, with an one point THREE 28.2 LNBs on Three 90cm dishes. A Quad LNB is what I would recommend, but you can't beat free stuff!).

I'd like a dedicated do-everything box and a 2m motorised dish on it as well as what I have, but new fridge/freezer and kitchen tiles come higher! I do have the 4 Way diseqec on the PC card feeding all TVs in house as well as Digibox and two analog receivers. I took a Digbox/90cm Dish down, swapping it for an HF Transeiver.

byte · 05-09-2003 6:05pm

Watty, can you gimme the URL for your site, as it's not in my Favourites list. I used your site before and from it I had Astra 1 on 80cm dish, with another LNB beside it for Hotbird. No bracketry, just cable ties and lots of insulation tape!

Sadly Hotbird LNB must've shifted so I'll have to get poking again. I also have another LNB I got from Tony some time ago, which I had intended to use for Astra 2 from same dish but never got around to it as it would be much more awkward trying to set an LNB wiht makeshift bracketry on Astra 2.

I need inspiration, as proper bracketry is hard to get for Triax dishes...

spuddy · 05-09-2003 7:46pm

Originally posted by watty
A fellow enthusist! Next step Spuddy is a PC Satellite card!

I know, I'm already thinking about it!

but my current setup will have to do for the moment till I scrape a bit of cash together to get a good one. I've also got a zone 2 dish for astra 2 with a quad lnb (standard/round dish lnb modified to work with a minidish as quad lnbs weren't out when i put it up) feeding four digiboxes to get the BBCs + others in the lounge, kitchen, bedroom & shed! so yes i suppose you could call me a bit of an enthusiast (or just mad!)

40cm dish

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