An open letter to DeVore

ColinM

Hi Tom,
bear with me for a little while here, will you?

I have enormous respect for you - not because I have to have, but because of who I perceive you to be.

I registered on Boards.ie here as you can see back in November of last year. I first discovered Boards.ie when I returned to Ireland from the UK in the Summer last year and I was searching the 'net for information regarding the state of play for broadband in Ireland. I found what I was looking for in Ireland Offline and the discussion group hosted here. I used to read everything posted on that forum every day. I wanted to get as informed as I could about the situation here in Ireland, and thanks to them I became better informed about the state of our communications infrastructure than anyone else I know.

It took me a few months before I decided to register and introduce myself to these heroes of Irish activism. Not long after, I began to post in other fora as well. Often an enigmatic subject line on the main page would arouse my interest. It was not long before I found myself spending over half of all my "Internet-time" browsing many different threads. Whether their subject matter entertained, informed, shocked or otherwise affected me, I can say it has all been a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

There are a few things of relevance that would be useful for you to know in order to gauge the credence you can give to my opinions.

First, although I have a "post-count" which averages out at less than one a day, I do not believe that the contibution I have made to this online community has been insignificant. I am always mindful of Plato's observation that "a wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something".

Secondly, I read far more than I write here. I would guess that in all the time I have spent browsing the discussion groups here, I have read several thousand posts at least.

Thirdly, although I am a relative "newbie" here, it is more than likely that I have been using computers and the Internet for longer than most contributors here. I had been using computers and computer languages for over a decade prior to discovering the Internet and before "IBM-compatibles", let alone DOS or Windows existed either. I have been using the Internet for well over a decade itself - before IE or even Netscape even existed. I have been using newsgroups and the Internet since the days when everything was text-only and The Web was unheard of.

In all this time, I have never found a site where I spent more time than www.Boards.ie and I have rarely read anyone's opinions with such attention as I read yours.

Whenever I see a thread where you are the most recent poster , I read the whole thread and am always eager to see what you have to say (in fact I always read the whole of every thread I open). Your ideas are always thought provoking. Your opinions are always balanced. Whether the topic is serious or whimsical, I know that I will be either be more informed or simply entertained by reading them.

Why am I telling you this? You would be right to be suspicious of my intentions. I could be attempting to ingratiate myself so that I could then be in a better position to sway your opinion.

It's up to you what you want to believe of course, but I have no agenda here. I've stated my case for Sloth, and I have accepted your (and Jerry's) final word on it. As indeed, has Sloth. He mailed me to tell me that he was on the second line of a letter of apology into which he was putting alot of thought. He told me that he had then re-read the "impartial advocate" thread and that he had read Ecksor's post which said that an apology was not wanted and that there was no chance of a change of heart. He has accepted this as immutable fact.

So if it's not that, then why am I telling you this? Well, on a few occasions, people have commented to me about things that I have said or done in the past. Often-times this will be about something that may have happened many years ago. They have said complimentary things about past events that I played a role in, or actions that I performed. Things like I was either right about something I said or did, or helpful or kind in some way, or simply gave someone a good laugh. I have often been quite mad with them for telling me so many years later, because it would occur to me that their feedback would have been alot more useful to me at the time. Every time when I ask somebody who makes one of these comments to me why they did not speak up at the time they always say to me "but I thought you knew...". Well even if I did, it would have been nice to know that other people agreed, right?

In addition, for every one of me that gives you feedback like this, you can be sure that there are many more who feel the same but never take the opportunity to say so.

So what is the real point to this open letter to you? Well as I have mentioned, I have had many years of experience with the Internet and Newsgroups, and it is clear that the level of moderation is second to none here. This place has always been run, as you have said like a "benevolent dictatorship" - ie: one that was willing to listen with an open mind but not necessarily agree. That's fine and I'd inifinitely prefer that to the horror that Usenet has become. However, I am genuinely upset because I find myself now wondering whether I want to remain part of a club where the management no longer seem willing to listen.

Sincerely,
Colin Montgomerie.
ColinMontgomerie2000@hotmail.com

Tellox

...what on EARTH is he talking about?

adnans

Originally posted by Tellox
...what on EARTH is he talking about?

the opression of the free peoples of course. what do you think?

this is like when my dad's friend talked about his holidays and this other guy told him about this man who drowned a lot a kittens. sad story i know, but whats the point of that story. nothing. you could say the kittens were opressed, but i dont think so. i think they were never drowned, but only taken away somewhere, far away and let to wander, away from people.

in the end, it was people that were opressed. man, we need to ban someone. stat.

adnans

Repli

I was just about to say the same thing
Some people have a little too much time on their hands.....

GuanYin

So lets get this straight ColinM.

The summary to date is:

1.You start a thread about giving slpoth a chance.
2.The admins say no.
3.You argue some more.
4.They say, the best thing you can do is leave it and when they cool down and there has been no more hassle, there might be a chance.
5.You argue some more.
6.They start to get quite bemused by your persistance and again state its best left.
7.You argue some more.
8.The admins are getting a little tired of you and tell you to drop it.
9. You aregue some more.
10. You basically talk Devore and Ecksor into never lifting sloths ban.
11. You say you'll let it rest.

and here we are at number 12.

12. you start the whole thing up again.

Ok I know where ecksor is coming from. I used a message board with no rules where muppets bred like rabbits. By comparison boards is the virtual garden of eden.

to be honest, I'm beginning to think you are sloth.

suspect_device

Originally posted by ColinM
Hi Tom,
bear with me for a little while here, will you?

I have enormous respect for you - not because I have to have, but because of who I perceive you to be.

I registered on Boards.ie here as you can see back in November of last year. I first discovered Boards.ie when I returned to Ireland from the UK in the Summer last year and I was searching the 'net for information regarding the state of play for broadband in Ireland. I found what I was looking for in Ireland Offline and the discussion group hosted here. I used to read everything posted on that forum every day. I wanted to get as informed as I could about the situation here in Ireland, and thanks to them I became better informed about the state of our communications infrastructure than anyone else I know.

It took me a few months before I decided to register and introduce myself to these heroes of Irish activism. Not long after, I began to post in other fora as well. Often an enigmatic subject line on the main page would arouse my interest. It was not long before I found myself spending over half of all my "Internet-time" browsing many different threads. Whether their subject matter entertained, informed, shocked or otherwise affected me, I can say it has all been a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

There are a few things of relevance that would be useful for you to know in order to gauge the credence you can give to my opinions.

First, although I have a "post-count" which averages out at less than one a day, I do not believe that the contibution I have made to this online community has been insignificant. I am always mindful of Plato's observation that "a wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something".

Secondly, I read far more than I write here. I would guess that in all the time I have spent browsing the discussion groups here, I have read several thousand posts at least.

Thirdly, although I am a relative "newbie" here, it is more than likely that I have been using computers and the Internet for longer than most contributors here. I had been using computers and computer languages for over a decade prior to discovering the Internet and before "IBM-compatibles", let alone DOS or Windows existed either. I have been using the Internet for well over a decade itself - before IE or even Netscape even existed. I have been using newsgroups and the Internet since the days when everything was text-only and The Web was unheard of.

In all this time, I have never found a site where I spent more time than www.Boards.ie and I have rarely read anyone's opinions with such attention as I read yours.

Whenever I see a thread where you are the most recent poster , I read the whole thread and am always eager to see what you have to say (in fact I always read the whole of every thread I open). Your ideas are always thought provoking. Your opinions are always balanced. Whether the topic is serious or whimsical, I know that I will be either be more informed or simply entertained by reading them.

Why am I telling you this? You would be right to be suspicious of my intentions. I could be attempting to ingratiate myself so that I could then be in a better position to sway your opinion.

It's up to you what you want to believe of course, but I have no agenda here. I've stated my case for Sloth, and I have accepted your (and Jerry's) final word on it. As indeed, has Sloth. He mailed me to tell me that he was on the second line of a letter of apology into which he was putting alot of thought. He told me that he had then re-read the "impartial advocate" thread and that he had read Ecksor's post which said that an apology was not wanted and that there was no chance of a change of heart. He has accepted this as immutable fact.

So if it's not that, then why am I telling you this? Well, on a few occasions, people have commented to me about things that I have said or done in the past. Often-times this will be about something that may have happened many years ago. They have said complimentary things about past events that I played a role in, or actions that I performed. Things like I was either right about something I said or did, or helpful or kind in some way, or simply gave someone a good laugh. I have often been quite mad with them for telling me so many years later, because it would occur to me that their feedback would have been alot more useful to me at the time. Every time when I ask somebody who makes one of these comments to me why they did not speak up at the time they always say to me "but I thought you knew...". Well even if I did, it would have been nice to know that other people agreed, right?

In addition, for every one of me that gives you feedback like this, you can be sure that there are many more who feel the same but never take the opportunity to say so.

So what is the real point to this open letter to you? Well as I have mentioned, I have had many years of experience with the Internet and Newsgroups, and it is clear that the level of moderation is second to none here. This place has always been run, as you have said like a "benevolent dictatorship" - ie: one that was willing to listen with an open mind but not necessarily agree. That's fine and I'd inifinitely prefer that to the horror that Usenet has become. However, I am genuinely upset because I find myself now wondering whether I want to remain part of a club where the management no longer seem willing to listen.

Sincerely,
Colin Montgomerie.
ColinMontgomerie2000@hotmail.com

For posterity. /me wipes away tear.....

By the way Col if the management dont listen then why or how did their replies to your previous post appear? By magic?
I think they do listen. Thats why the site evolves the way it does. By the interaction and willingness of the admins and community as a whole to listen to each other. Just because they have yet to do something for you does not mean they dont listen.

dahamsta

TacT

damnit, beaten to it by dahamsta

DapperGent

Other people have been banned have just reregistered and kept on posting minus the crap that got them banned in the first place.

If Sloth really wants to post on boards he should do something similar.

And you should really just shutup.

ecksor

As DeVore said to me earlier this evening, "nah it just comes in spurts, relax", before lying back and smoking a cigarette, and it really did put my mind at ease. He was talking about ejaculation of course, but it's a useful analogy for the occasional 'set my people free' sort of online civil liberties that we see here. And you know, analogies are a lot like goldfish, they very often have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Sykeirl has his finger on this one.

I read all the posts that are directed towards the admins. I don't always reply (I don't always have a good or useful response, although that doesn't always stop me), but I do always read. In a textual medium, that'll have to do instead of listening.

However, the simple fact is that some people waste our time. We're ambitious people, with grand plans of someday ruling all of Europe and hopefully most of Asia. We wish we had time to oppress each member of boards.ie individually at great length, but we must try to divide our oppressive powers out in a roughly equal manner, or else we'd end up with the sort of free-thinking notions that lead to the fall of the British Empire, and that makes Regi very very angry indeed. If one of the riff-raff is demanding too much attention, or generally ruining our buzz, then we might be distracted from pissing off thousands of other users who might then become somewhat happy about their Internet forum situation and bugger off to p45.net or something in search of their much needed psychological abuse.

We just can't have that.

Today's word is ... divining.

Particularly apt here I feel. Sometimes I just know.

CuLT

Mmm, this made for an excellent read.

This isn't a resurgence of the BLP is it? They were an interesting few weeks...

(Hope you don't mind the temp addition to my sig ecksor)

sceptre

All I'd like to say is:

I trust DeVore, ecksor and the other admins in the way they run this place. Very much so as a matter of fact. Being human, they've made the odd mistake but I've noticed they're the type of people that will own up to it. That's part of where my trust comes from. They appear to have made a decision on this using the basics of utilitarianism plus practicality (most people, most benefit but adding on the idea of the admins having a finite amount of time, which isn't irrelevant). They've had quite a bit of information to base this particular decision on and they've based their decision on that information. Hence, for what it's worth (which isn't a great deal tbh as it's only one opinion), I agree firmly with that decision. How could I do anything else?

ecksor

Not at all, although I believe I read that somewhere else the other day. My memory is like an analogy, sometimes it has a 2 second memory.

yellum

ecksors posts are just sublime lately

PiE

I agree yellum, two legendary statements in this thread already.

freedomF

Originally posted by CuLT
Mmm, this made for an excellent read.

This isn't a resurgence of the BLP is it? They were an interesting few weeks...

(Hope you don't mind the temp addition to my sig ecksor)

Comrades,


We the BLP fully support and wish to throw our considerable weight behind the well thought out and heart rendering piece written by volunteer ColinM.


Ecksors replies are again proof if proof be needed that we should be granted arbitration powers in matters such as these. See how his benevolent dictatorship routine allows him to condescend and belittle a fellow boards.ie community member without so much of a thought for the subject at hand. A similar approach was taken to a statement made by Comrade Puck if we recall correctly.


And again look at how they tried to tarnish our good name with the tag line they branded me with, as if I were no more than their livestock.

Our day will come.

freedomF
Spokes Person for the BLP

Puck

I tried to read ColinM's post, I really did. But the little voice in my head just translated the text into "Blah blah blah, someone couldn't possibly disagree with my wonderful ideas, they must just not be 'listening' properly! I must make even more 'noise' so they can 'listen' better. Blah blah blah."

fisty

ColinM,
That is the most boring insignificant post I have ever read.
I hope you catch some horrible disease that makes your fingers fall off so you can never darken boards' doorway again.

GoneShootin

Ever hear of Voice Recognition fisty ? You dont need fingers these days.

Or a typing monkey !!

Nehoo, I liked Colins thread, made me laugh. At one stage I thought it was a CV for a job application.

BuffyBot

Best thread since....the last one

nellieswellies

And you know, analogies are a lot like goldfish, they very often have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand

Classic

fisty

typing monkies you say, where would one aquire one of these typing monkies?
dNC?
HA!

DaithiSurfer

What a crap thread.
Lets make this a democracy.
Why don't we vote for the moderator to sack.
I know where my vote will go.
The people will rise up, you'll see

Come to think of it.
Its a good thing its a dictatorship for some mods sakes

GUI

Sloth does not deserve to get back.
he annoyed everyones head!

echomadman

Rofl @ ecksor,
Award for most somethingawfulesque post of the day

Beëlzebooze

Well, if this kind of unadulterated drivel is one of the benefits of being a self proclaimed elitist, I am perfectly happy lurking in the shadows of mediocrity

Wook

i see that there are a lot of the new.. ahum 'moderators' just running along like a bunch of cows loudly proclaiming their opinion, (after waiting and looking out for the 'old-boy's-boards-club')

The txt might have been long , but there's no need for comments like these:

'What a crap thread.'
'That is the most boring insignificant post I have ever read.
I hope you catch some horrible disease that makes your fingers fall off so you can never darken boards' doorway again. '

clearly whoever this guy is , he has spend some time thinking and writing about it. I would think that is something important to him?

your bunch of vultures fighting for a corpse with nothing left to eat

Beëlzebooze

wook,
he might have thought about it long and hard, but it is like a politicians speech; no content!

this time somebody has posted something I consider silly, so I jump on the bandwagon, and point. Just like is done when I post something foolish (and lordy, do I post some bloody silly things)

GuanYin

Originally posted by Wook
clearly whoever this guy is , he has spend some time thinking and writing about it. I would think that is something important to him?

your bunch of vultures fighting for a corpse with nothing left to eat

Man, read the last thread on this.
Its the same as this one but with smaller words and not as many quotable phrases from ecksor. ColinM posted the same drivel before, they listened, they discussed and the rejected. And still he comes back.

Personally I don't give a rats ass about sloth or what happens to him but I hate pointless idiotic threads designed to waste everyones time and annoy people.
In my opinion its all probably sloths doing. to create more attention for himself. Which is why he was banned in the first place. I would guess that those keeping this up aren't doing him or themselves any favours.

GoneShootin

Originally posted by sykeirl
I hate pointless idiotic threads designed to waste everyones time and annoy people.

your on the wrong website my friend

patch

Surely the whole point of Sloth wanting to log back on with his name is reason enough to disregard him. If he actually WAS trying to get people to accept him, surely he'd just fly below the radar for a while?

Colinm WTF is wrong with you? You do realise you've become the new head wanker around here, don't you?

WhiteWashMan

who is sloth?

Absolam

mmmm...typing monkey.........

sceptre

Originally posted by Wook
clearly whoever this guy is , he has spend some time thinking and writing about it. I would think that is something important to him?

I believe that his intentions are good. He's fighting a battle on behalf of someone who, on the evidence, doesn't deserve the effort Colin is going to though IMHO.

Wook

Originally posted by sceptre
I believe that his intentions are good. He's fighting a battle on behalf of someone who, on the evidence, doesn't deserve the effort Colin is going to though IMHO.

i think you are right about that one.

DaithiSurfer

Sloth is Colin.
Doing what he does best.Stirring the *hite

Puck

Originally posted by freedomF
A similar approach was taken to a statement made by Comrade Puck if we recall correctly.

Jesus, what's this tit on about now?!

ecksor

Shut up Puck. FreedomF has the ability to predict future events.

Borzoi

Originally posted by GoneShootin
your on the wrong website my friend

Or the wrong internet.....:D

Puck

Originally posted by ecksor
Shut up Puck. FreedomF has the ability to predict future events.

Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Sposs

*me dusts off below sign

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Sposs
*me dusts off below sign

...or lets not

GuanYin

Originally posted by GoneShootin
your on the wrong website my friend

My remark applies only for a given definition of idiotic

Kevok

Originally posted by Puck
Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

I have tears streaming down my face with laughter.

ColinM: This is the person you are putting yourself on the block for. Mind you the reason the admins are so impatient with him in that thread is because it was things like that day, after day, after day. Also bear in mind that Detonated Sauce is Sloth and you get a picture of the stress he caused the Admins.

po0k

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
who is sloth?

just about to ask the same question.

I've a vague recollection of seeing that nick....but tbh, I could care less.

I'm still smiling at the goldfish.

DeVore

Hang on a second, the "letter" was written to me. So let me answer it.

I wont quote all of it as a lot of it is just setting the scene for a final comment.

ColinM, I always listen to civil points of view regardless of whether they agree or disagree with mine. I listen and reconsider my decision based on any new information received.

I dont know how you can say I "havent listened". I have, I responded on your very thread, I just dont agree with you or see any upside to allowing the Sloth character to return. He brought me nothing but headache. Apologies are not necessary and dont speak as loudly as actions. If the person who is Sloth truely wished to return and has changed their idiocy (which I doubt) then they can register a new account and go about their business. I'll never be the wiser.

Other then that I've listened to what you've said (and to be honest you have given no clear reason why I should make any concession to Sloth) and my answer is that he, and the rest of his personae, remain banned.
Thats my decision having listened to everyone. Please respect it.

DeV.

Boston

Originally posted by DeVore
If the person who is Sloth truely wished to return and has changed their idiocy (which I doubt) then they can register a new account and go about their business. I'll never be the wiser.

Other then that I've listened to what you've said (and to be honest you have given no clear reason why I should make any concession to Sloth) and my answer is that he, and the rest of his personae, remain banned.
Thats my decision having listened to everyone. Please respect it.

DeV.

Speaking from experience, this is very true, and the admins around here are fair. think of some of the mindless crap i said when i first arrived here, and the repeated bannings and warnings. No body thought i could turn myself around but it happened, even because a mod here for a short period, untill certain people (you knwo who you are) made it clear that i'd have no peace as a moderator here and that i should leave. but hey i' still around. No body really know what i'm like, am i a muppet or something else, theres a card somewhere that says muppet.

anywho the point is that if people change, then they will be forgotten which is as good as you can hope for.

yossarin

no ! don't finish this thread in such a reasonable and fair manner.

make the monkey dance ! Sloth is being opressed ! Fight the power !

Cloud

Originally posted by DeVore
...

I was awaiting an open letter to ColinM from DeVore, slightly disappointed

I must admit, I admire the manner in which he (ColinM) defended Sloth's integrity! We all... stand... together! Bom bom (a la frog chorus).

DeVore

*clutches head in palms*

Cloud... sometimes you are just too frickin' weird!

DeV.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by DeVore
[BCloud... sometimes you are just too frickin' weird![/B]

and that's why I love boards so much
the weirdness