Lawsuit!!!

mewso

Just saw this on Blue's:-

Lawsuit Follow-up [loonyboi-8:09 PM EDT]
AVault has published a story about the lawsuit being brought by the parents of victims in the 1997 Kentucky high school tragedy (see story), featuring court documents they've obtained that shed some light on what companies are being mentioned. Here's an excerpt:


According to court documents obtained by the Adrenaline Vault, the defendants include Apogee Software, id Software, GT Interactive, Sega of America, Atari Corporation, Acclaim Entertainment, Interplay Productions, Midway Home Entertainment, Nintendo of America, Activision, Sony Computer Entertainment, Capcom Entertainment, Eidos Interactive and Squaresoft. The complaint contends these companies produced and supplied games that made the violence “pleasurable and attractive” and disconnected the savageness from natural consequences. In addition, the plaintiffs claim the games taught Carneal to point and shoot in a fashion that made him an “extraordinarily effective killer.”


I contacted id Software's Todd Hollenshead for a clarification, and he did tell me that they have not been served with a lawsuit as of yet, but mentioned that if that happens he won't be able to speak about pending litigation. We'll keep you updated as this develops...

Scary stuff eh? Well those games didn't teach him to be a loony.

M

TwoShedsJackson

They better get some damn good lawyers to go up against the lads at Sony & Nintendo, not to mention all the others Only in America would anyone try a publicity stunt like this.

LoLth

I have to agree that the idea of suing the producers of games is ridiculous.

This is the Kid that opened fire on his class-mates isn't it? If not, well ignore the rest.

1. If the games do glorify and desensitise violence then the parents should keep their children away from them. Didn't quake have an age rating?

2. If the parents of this kid can sue the games company, then the Parents of the children who were hurt or suffered emotional trauma (crap term but seeing something like that HAS to have an effect on a kids mind) should be able to sue the parents of the psycho kid for mishandling their son's education and adaptation to life.

3. Did the kid not learn how to play? How to seperate games from reality?

4. Might seem like tasteless humour but, if the kid was so impressed by Quake, how come he didn't run into the 'enemy' guns blazing and trying to pick up their backpacks?? If , as they say, the games caused his violence then surely his violence would have been in the same style as his primary influence.

5. The American legal system is so caught up in 'protecting the rights of the individual' that sometimes (a lot of the time!) it turns into a joke where the ones responsible can easily shift the blame to someone else.

I play Quake, I have played Doom, Duke Nukem, Tekken, Mortal Combat. I'm not violent! I've played Dune2, Command & conquer, Total Annihalation, Starcraft. I'm not of the mind that I am some sort of general. I've watched films like Terminator, Predator, Vietnam films, Schindler's list. I'm not about to go nuts with a gun or go on an ethnic cleansing spree. If I do ever fight, think a violent thought or go ballistic , do I get to sue all of the producers of the above for causing irrepairable damage to my psyche?

To sum up my argument (and if you've read this far, you needn't have bothered because it has a summary ) Balls!

J.

Maximilian

If you'd like a professional opinion...

The chance of this case ever winning in Court - even in the US - is extremely remote.

The chances of that case ever even getting near Court is even more remote. The whole reason they're suing is purely to try and obtain an out of court settlement. They're suing as many companies as possible so as to spread the net as wide as they can.

The Software companies may be worried enough that they may well offer something to kill the case, before legal costs mount. Even so, it won't make any difference to you or me. I'd say thats the last you'll hear of it.

Hobbes

Didn't Sony lose the Playstation court case? They can't be that good.

Anyway I heard the kid was using the allbright mod to become a more effective killer so they are in serious trubble.

Dupre

I find this lawsuit story hard to believe, but since its America, its probably true...

The problem with stuff like this is that even though the lawsuit probably won't win and is more than likely a publicity stunt (or out-of-court-settlement-racket), it is part of a worrying trend. Stuff like this combined with other garbage can have an effect on the opinion of 'Joe Soap' who has never played a computer game. Lots of Joe Soaps make up public opinion, and when public opinion sides against something, laws start being passed.

IMHO its all part of a drive by certain people towards censoring numerous computer related areas (games, internet).

It has been going on for a while now and is probably going to get worse.

Its easy to blame computer games, videos and what-not for ****ed-up people. Its a lot less common for parents to look at themselves when apportioning blame: from what I see, a history of bad parenting and / or domestic violence is often a root cause of such behaviour.
Just my misguided thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Dupre (edited 13-04-99).]

Dupre

P.S. Are they also going to sue the inhabitants of world trouble spots for depicting violence to youngsters which is broadcast on the world news ?

Next thing ya'll see the Serbs getting landed with a big lawsuit ...

Riker

My father's American and he ain't stupid.
Do you have a 98D Porsche Carrrera Kharn?

You shouldn't make stupid generalisations like that. It's rude and ignorant.

TAKE IT!

-Riker

Leverz

one thing i have to ask, where did the little ******** get the gun? Parents was it not?

They are taking this lawsuit up with the wrong crowd, they should take it up with the Fedral Government, who allow any fk wit to hold a gun.

This is just another exapmle of money grabbing yanks doing what they do best.

Tighter gun laws are required, not the video game industry. They really do need to get a grip.

Shinji

Won't make it to court, unless some big-ass lawyer sees bucks to be made on publicity, which is always a possibility.

In the last decade, I've been party to the torturing, maiming and killing of thousands - nay, millions - of onscreen representations of characters. Never once in that time have I felt the urge to go out and commit these acts in real life.

Also, the idea that Quake teaches you how to use a real weapon is very amusing. Speaking as someone who has used everything from pellet guns, to laser tag systems, to paintballs, to actual pistols and assault weaponry on firing ranges... There is no comparison! Argh! Where's my crosshair! Why can't I rocket jump!

Mata ne!
Rob

mewso

Naw the problem here is that the kid just didn't know how to get away with it. As long as you tank up on RA after a kill you should be safe ffs.
Only the other day I greased some muther with an RJ and was surprised he didn't call me a jammy git. Maybe he forgot to press fire and start again.
These games don't don't teach you to kill efficiently at all! The last time I managed to massacre a bunch of cops I mistakenly hit one of the guys in the throat. The bstrd was screaming and blood was spurting all over the place (lucky it was a quiet alleyway) for ages.
I mean where are the basic lessons in crime. There's nothing about burgalry in there (and I have a bone to pick with ID about that one, nearly got caught a few times) and nothing about proper GBH. It's all weapons and no fists. And boy have I had to use my fists to frag a few fu(kers on occassion. I think I'll sue ID for not teaching me properly at all. In fact I had to learn all the important tricks of the trade on my own. And I'm fairly sure those voices in my head were around years before Doom came out.

M

OSiriS

Notice some of the facts here:

Quake, Doom, Mortal Kombat all over 15s

Basketball Diaries Over 18s

Porn sites Usually over 21s (so I've heard )

All of the age limitations are clearly advertised, and the kid was 14. So it is was the parent's responsibility. They should have been aware of the films he was watching, the games he was playing, etc, as they are there for a reason....to prevent lawsuits such as these, though being in america, the case has a pretty good chance of winning.

Shiminay

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Americans are fu(kin' stupid.
This whole thing only serves to confirm what I've just said.

To any Americans reading - tuff - yiz are on another planet!!!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)

LoLth

Riker.

Yes, 'All Americans are stupid' is a generalisation (and a wrong one). Not all Americans are stupid BUT there IS a greater proportion of stupid people in America. There are so many people there that something that would happen here maybe once in ten years should, in all probability, happen there once a month. Unfortunately it seems to happen there more often than that.

America has always been a huge proponent of 'Freedom of Choice' and , as has often happened with an ideal, it has been taken beyond what we would term the limits of normality.

Another generalisation that I once believed was, 'All American girls are beautiful, slim and spoilt rotten'. WRONG! From personal experience, there is a huge proportion of girls and women (and men) who are well into the 'obese' category, and while the spoilt people I met definitely were spoiled rotten and this compounded with a severe superiority complex topped off with a helping of misplaced self-confidence, I did meet quite a few 'decent' peeps.

In short, no generalisation can ever be completely proven or disproven. You really shouldn't take offense (haven't you ever heard 'All men are *******s!'? or 'All women are *****es'? or All Irish are Catholic? or even All gameplayers are weird? and All Computer Programmers are Nerds?).

J.

PS. I know lots of stupid people (some who could be described as the world's elite cadre of living brain donors) who drive incredible cars (perhaps some of that 'American Capitalist Pig' attitude has rubbed off on you , Da?' )

Shiminay

Riker my man - appologies. No offence intended. I assume yer Dad's had a dose of normality seeing as he's here in Ireland

Nice car btw

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)

YourMa

Hey thanks Kharn I just had a bad day, didn't
mean to have a go at ya!

Lolth, 1/3 of Americans are obese, that's a
fact not a generalisation and remember, that
ain't fat, that's like a few stone overweight!

And from my experience a higher proportion of
American girls are bet-down than Irish girls. It actually seems that the ugly tree grows in Chicago

-Riker

Shiminay

Not a prob man.

Mouserat

Loloth -
I think Tommy Tiernan said it well on the Late Late a few weeks back, he said that every country in the world has the same proportion of stupid people, its just that in America they dont realise they are stupid and are encouraged to inflict their poorly thought out opinions on others - they read magazines for stupid people, watch TV shows for stupid people, go on chat shows for stupid people and so on.

Ever watch Jerry Springer? Theres no rocket-scientists on that show, thats for sure.

(PS: Useless world-is-on-a-slipery-slope trivia fact: I know Rocket-science is overrated these days - the going rate in countries not affiliated with the non-proliferation pact is only $300 a week for (say) ex-soviet rocket-scientists, and North Koreas biggest cash crop is missiles, woooh, scary-dary)

Alan

Hobbes, just out of interest, what Playstation case did Sony lose?

Alan

Shinji

The case Hobbes is referring to (I presume) is the injunction against Connectix for producing the PS emulator for the Mac. They didn't lose it yet, as such... But all their preliminary pleas have failed, and they are defninitely gonna lose.

Mata ne!
Rob

DeVore

Ever wonder what those scientists say when they fu(k up? Like take the Arienne (?) project that blew up on launch. What does the boos say? "FFS I mean its not Rocket Science! oh no, hang on..."

DeV.

Draco

Okay few points...

The Sony case could also be the one against Bleem. They're been sued for the same reason as Connectix.

Next, this sort of case has been tired before against RPG companies and as far as I know everyone has been thrown out. With all the warnings on games (RPG and Computers) since the late 80's no reasonable Judge is going to side with the parents. If the companies lawyers do their research, they'll see this and say to hell with the parents.

Just on the Arienne that blew up, it was attributed to a comma instead of a semi-colon in the navigational software...4 odd billion worth of kit destroyed 'cause of a typo...funny old world isn't it?

As OSirS points out, most of the stuff mentioned has age ratings....so they can wash their hands of it by pointing out he was not supposed to have it and shift the blame to where ever he got the stuff.

That's all folks!

Draco

Hobbes

I can't remember what the court case was, it was on wired.com about Sony losing to some company that was creating an emulator. I think for the PC not the mac. Try the Emulator discussion board

Btw, I wouldn't say Americans are stupid. They just have a completly different view of the world (ie. Two countries. America and the rest of the world). I've had people if I knew such and such in Denmark because that's in Europe (surprised they even got that) or others just saying basically what you would class as stupid things ("How did you manage to get to work with all the snipers in Dublin"). And these are people who are experts in thier field.

Mind you, most Asians think Europeans are lazy, and Europeans have thier own sterotypes of other countries which are way off whack. And Americans think European means your French.

KinDreD

Id bring the wee ****er out side and give him a clip round the ear....

KinDreD

ive been playing games since i was a wee young lad and i don't go shooting folk.....its the parents fault for having such a little ****ed up freak like ye're man.....

Blade

This was all over the news here and an independant specialists in the UK reckoned that the whole thing was infact a stunt but not to get an out of court settlement but only to create awarness of certain dangers related to "violent" games and films, they reckon the only thing might be affected by this is that laser gun thing u point at your TV because it increases accuracy for someone handling a real gun. The reason they won't get anywhere with this appart from publicity is because they are not taking a lawsuit against any one particular firm, they are attacking several firms at the same time so they haven't a hope unless of course they get your man who got OJ off to use his Chewbacka attack!

But on a serious note, I believe good and evil is inside every one of us and it only takes certain circumstances for evil to emerge, anything from your background, upbringing, compulsive behaviour, alcohol and in the worste circumstance I think which is giving someone the oppertunity to do evil in the first place for example in this case giving the guy a gun. A worse example is whats going on in Kosovo right now, theres Serbian soldiers armed with Milosovic's blessing to do what they want to Albanians once they get them out of Kosovo, so what do they do? rape and butcher people cause they have the power and know they can get away with it. Most of these soldiers went to school and lived in the same villages as their victims and probably drank with them a couple of years ago.

Blade

LoLth

The Serbia-Kosovo-Croat thingy is a very complicated affair but, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone it IS just one opinion, I reckon one of the biggest factors in this current conflict (and the ones before it) is Religion. When the Croat/Bosnia/Serb war really got into full swing, a lot of **** had already happened - stuff we didn't really hear about. Neighbours killed each other because they were of different faiths. One Shopkeeper in Albania went so far as to poison a load of bread while openly claiming neutrality, the bread he sold to the Muslims.

Religion has acted as a springboard and excuse for a lot of the evil that men do (My biggy in this field are the Crusades and the convert-and-die mentality of the crusaders). It is religion that teaches that God is good and things that do not follow the same God are closer to evil. The sad thing about the Serbs (and I guess this is the point of this post) is, they do not see themselves as evil. Of course there are some there who rape, burn and kill for fun but most who partake in this type of activity are doing what the interpret as 'God's work'. It might seem sick to us but it is too easy to denounce them offhand as 'Evil'. I would also like to point out that in the last war in Serbia, atrocities were carried out by BOTH sides. Tit for tat, but still sick. You kill an unborn child here, I'll pin a newborn to a tree there. You did it first but does that make it right for me to do it? We only really heard about the Serbian side.

By the way Blade. Forget the 'went to school and drank with', there are plenty of incidents where wives killed husbands in their sleep, husbands butchered their OWN family! A few years ago, inter religous marriages were not that rare. Zealotism and fanatacism has always bubbled away quietly in the Balkan states (a generalisation: They are a very beligerant people - I know this to be true in some cases and false in others,but by and large they have one viscious and hot temper). It is relatively recently that the 'mens clubs' and 'weekly meetings' have started to actively spread a message of discord. The weird thing is, if Milosovic was on the other side, he would be a great hero!

My personal opinion. It's sick. All of it. It is easy for me to blame religion though I know that there is a lot more to it than that but I still can't help feeling that the world would be a happier (and quieter) place if we were all one religion, or Atheist, or Hunanist!

This is Charlie Bird
for RTE

Shiminay

Lads - you esp. DeV - ye've freaked me out! I just had a look ad Ariane 5 in the lecture I was reading this in - Co-incidence? I think not

Anyway - details on that (not that they're relevant, but I wanna post it anyway )
Date: June 4 1996
Name: Ariane 5
Cost: $67 billion
Duration: 37 seconds
Fault: Software Error
Reason: The programmers re-used code from Ariane 4 and this was to proove fatal. The craic is, they were overloading Ada (the programming language they used) to convert a 64-bit floating point number into a 16-bit Integer and didn't take precautions to error check cause the "knew" it would never be overloaded. The nature of Ada meant that it shut down the system rather than carry on regardless (as say C would have) and so to quote the wise words of the guy who wrote this article:

From this point on, Ariane 5 assumed the aerodynamic properties of an overhead projector and shortly afterwards turned itself into twelve square kilometers of debris

I love it!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)