Forget all that posotive IE5 Crapp!

Helg

It seems a pity that many of the previous postings have completely missed the point.

It does not matter if IE5 is the fastest, easiest to use, etc browser.

The only thing that matters is whether it will correctly display web sites. That is the purpose of a browser. If it cannot do that then it is of no use at all. The way to test this is with the tests of the standards.

We were promised by Microsoft that IE5 was going to comply with the standards. That is not the case. We do not have to compare MS to others because they fail compared to their own promises.

This is a step backwards as

a) There will be more users with another different and incompatible browsers

b) If MS ever produce a standards compliant browser it will take even longer to be widely accepted because so many will be behind and still upgrading to this incompatible browser.

This is confirmed by the IE5 review on www.builder.com; and I quote:

"Microsoft has fallen well short of its promises to support World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standards, particularly in its selective, fragmentary, and unhelpful support for the Document Object Model (DOM). After running a copy of the final-release version of IE 5.0 for several days on dozens of sites and putting the product through literally hundreds of tests, I can say with some confidence that Web builders who have to design sites for multiple browsers are going to want to lay in a big stock of headache remedies if they add IE 5.0 to that list."

If that's what you call good, can I've some of what your smoking ?

On a posotive note NS5 is looking a bit more likely to be along the W3C lines - but we'll just have to wait and see.

All the best
Helg.

regi

Complete and utter crap. Netscrape is the browser that completely bombs when someone leaves out a </td> by mistake. IE at least thinks a little about what's going on, and can make reasonably accurate guesses about what people were trying to write. The fact is that most websites are put together by dodgy GUI HTML designers, and these are notorious for bad HTML. Netscrape will really punish them, and possibly not even show the damn page.

I think that you are gravely missing the point here. A browser is a tool, designed to be easy to use and reliable for users, for showing web pages, not a tool for hammering people who either make HTML mistakes, or only have enough time for a GUI html designer.

Dan
(Actively hating the MS-Hate-Sheep-Mentality)

Helg

Hey your intitled to your opinion too,
but my letter was by no-means a pro-Netscape
one...I only put that bit in at the end about NS5 seeing as the common thoughts on it will be an improovement on the mess that makes compatability such an issue in designing.

I'm sitting here using IE right now, I don't disagree that they are good browsers, I just feel that if your going to release a whole new version wouldn't it be alot more sensible to go with the W3C guidelines.

Btw, I couldn't care less if it was released by MS or Tesco - I'm just saying that it's very unfriendly for those of us who have to design complete, cross-browser compatible websites seriously.

Wouldn't it be alot easier if browsers didn't have to 'guess' where things go, if they could just follow the guidelines the author sets out (CSS for instance)

My 2p.

Helg.

LegacyUser

Unfortunately CSS isn't full supported in NS4, not sure how NS5 will cope with it.

Move this to "Webmaster" too :-)

Helg

Your right there John,
although I wasn't implying it was - it's just an example.

Ah sure we'll just leave it at that, just bored that's all.

Helg

regi

> those of us who have to design complete, cross-browser compatible websites seriously.

Funnily enough, this is what I do, 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. And I would recommend IE over Netscrape to anyone who'd care to ask. In fact, in my experience, most people who do that for a living would push IE4+ over NS4+ as well.

Not to mention the fact that since IE4+ has a DOM that is so, so, so much more like the W3C's idea of a DOM than Netscrape 4, with its gibberish concept of LAYER tags, its clumsy and incomplete event handling, its lack of access to the content on the page and the general feeling of nostalgia I get when using it, as it reminds me of MOSAIC after I've been using IE4 for a while.

Dan

SeP

regi has a little speech made out about ns v ie, he showed it to me on irc yesterday heh

wan reg

why am i posting to this.... sorry

Shinji

In fairness to Netscape, they still have a better interface and a better mail client. And as I can tell you from playing with NS5 beta.... this whups serious ass. Supports everything IE5 does, only a lot faster and with a much smaller memory footprint.

Mata ne!
Rob

Helg

Dan, you seem to be taking alot of this personnally ? I'm not trying to suggest your some mickey-mouse HTML author...I'm giving my opinion.

Although this discussion seems to be heading to NS vs. IE - That isn't what my original posting was about!

I like the browser and I also like most of the new features in IE5, I just think innovation is fine, as long as Industry standards get priority.

>. In fact, in my experience, most people who do that for a living would push IE4+ over NS4+ as well.

If that's suggesting I am pushing Netscape, you've got me all wrong - I don't intend to get into my views on either company (too late ?), so I may aswell point out that I've done and will continue to recommend IE over NS to anyone who asks. But that's neither here nor there.
And finally, I never said anything about who had the better DOM, that's common knowledge - I'd just like to have compatability (as promised by MS for this release) once and for all so this Document Objet Model comparing would be a thing of the past.

This was supposed to be about IE5's pros vs. flaws.

And going back to the DOMs, take a look at
http://www.jeremie.com/Dev/DOM/index.jer
to see the inadequacy spelt out in tests.

And yes I'm aware that many of the fuctions laid out by the W3C can actually be done, you'll be forced to use some Microsoft syntax, which will strangely enough make a Netscape user's page go wonky.

And just to point out that I am in agreement with you on currect Netscape versions being ugly, chunky looking yokes with many faults...I'm just optomistic that somehow NS5 will be an improovment all round.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I'd like to re-emphasize that I'm not intending to have a go at Regi, or his capability.

As I said before:
my 2p

Brian

Helg

hehe,

maybe...you offering ?

Bri.

regi

Heh you lookin' for slaps? )

Dan