out of the box linux

Gerry · 11-08-2003 11:37pm #1

Just had an idea, for a way to migrate people to linux less painfully. I was reading the threads about the rpc exploit, and it seems that there are a lot of people who could do with a machine that doesn't crash and get hacked all the time. These people are joe soaps, and they are never going to take a linux disk and install it, they are just going to keep going with microsoft pain.

What if there was a linux distribution which was already tested on their machine, which booted straight into something which looked almost exactly like windows, and which allowed them to use the net and openoffice and play audio/video? This would cover a lot of peoples needs. It wouldn't really work for gamers, but theres an lot of people on boards who don't play games. The machine could have mozilla ( or whatever people think is best ), with all the plugins, and latest java, so all web games would work.

It would not be a "distro" in the proper sense of the word, more a preinstalled, preconfigured backup of a common distro like redhat or debian. There would be a few dialog boxes to fill in your username, internet connection details etc.

The kernel could be a catchall with absolutely everything built in, and the system could be based off whichever distro has the best hardware detection. Most problems would popup with X Server config, but hopefully with customized versions available for different machines, this would not be an impossible problem. You would pick your machine ( pick from branded pc's or pick a combination of hardware for a clone machine ) and it would suggest an image for you to download.
You would need to repartition your disk, then boot from the cd, and it would automatically extract to the partition which was big enough and didn't have windows. ( or you could overwrite windows... )

Volunteers from boards.ie could test a version on their machine, and so it would work on other peoples machines which had the same hardware.

This would not cater for the majority of peoples needs ( there would be people complaining about fancy hardware not working ), and gamers which I mentioned above, but for some it could suffice, and give some peace of mind, for others it could cut down on the amount of machines they have which are unecessarily running windows.

If anyone thinks this idea has any promise at all, let me know.

dahamsta · 11-08-2003 11:50pm

Lindows is pretty much like this already, isn't it Gerry?

(Don't look at me, I wouldn't have it near my rigs.

)

adam

Gerry · 11-08-2003 11:57pm

Yep, if lindows or knoppix does the job ( have to say haven't used either of them ) then no need to reinvent the wheel. Just find a way to get more people to use them. I'd be taking it a little bit farther in terms of ease of use. You'd just have a barebones install that worked, no questions asked, and for no charge at all. Possibly base the system on knoppix, and make an image of a fully setup system, and install or make a web-based no-brainer apt-get. I suppose this is me just musing about linux advocacy and how to get people using it, use whats out there and make it as easy as possible.

eggshapedfred · 12-08-2003 7:59am

apparently in the States, Walmart sell PCs for about $300 which have Linux pre-installed. I think they're about to start selling ones with SuSE 8 on them. Is this what you meant?

also, i think the people that use linux do so because they're interested in doing so (</stating_obvious>). for most people its like:
surfing internet = Microsoft IE
write a document = Microsoft Word
make party invites = Microsoft Publisher.

Its not the difficulties in installing linux you have to get around, its the associations with propriety software that people have in their heads thats the problem. until they start using open source stuff in work, it won't filter down to the home environment.

Kali · 12-08-2003 8:16am

Gerry, definitely take a look at Knoppix, it really is one amazing distro, I was never convinced about it until I tried it myself... use it now to test diagnose hardware problems on any dodgy machines.

Burn CD. Put in CD. Press Enter once. 40 seconds later you have the WIndow Manager loaded and your ready to go, video, mouse, sound, network, pcmcia, everything working (I haven't had a problem on any of 5 machines, including 3 laptops I've tried it with since I downloaded it last week).

oslin · 21-08-2003 1:01pm

hi,
for a debian/rpm based distro you can just use synaptic http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/
no need for a web interface.
screenshots
http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/action.html
nils

JustHalf · 23-08-2003 12:29am

So, I've been messing around with Knoppix, and it's pretty cool that it just runs, but it's also pretty terrible looking. It doesn't (as far as I can see) have a UK keyboard mapping and it doesn't support my dad's winmodem. Also, how the heck are people to know what KPPP, Ethercap and Gaim actually are?

I don't think Knoppix is aimed at the crowd Phil is talking about. I think we could definitely do a good Irish respin, with all the free dial-up providers already in KPPP (for example) and a nice clean look-and-feel. With decent names on things.

Any idea what the story is with the winmodem?

sunbeam · 23-08-2003 1:02am

There are some suggestions for getting certain winmodems to work with Knoppix on the Knoppix.net forum such as this. Being a rather clueless newbie I couldn't get this to work for me.

I found out what KPPP was by trial and error when my HD died and I urgently needed net access, and eventually got it to work with my Nokia 6210.

You can change the keyboard settings in Control Centre-Regional and Accessibility

I'd love to see a slightly more dummified version of the distro with a nice friendly 'Intro to Linux' document included and would be very interested in an Irish version. Maybe then I'd actually consider installing it to HD (when I get one). As things are I think I'd feel more comfortable going with Mandrake.

Snaga · 23-08-2003 1:53am

Originally posted by JustHalf

I don't think Knoppix is aimed at the crowd Phil is talking about. I think we could definitely do a good Irish respin, with all the free dial-up providers already in KPPP (for example) and a nice clean look-and-feel. With decent names on things.

ILUG have their own bootable knoppix iso with Irish ISP settings all pre set up and some other customisations.

I havent tried it myself yet so Ill just link you.

http://www.linux.ie/download/ - second link from the top.

Lukin Black · 23-08-2003 6:28am

Originally posted by JustHalf
Any idea what the story is with the winmodem?

If you've a dell modem, or any modem based on a conexant chip, try here for drivers.

JustHalf · 23-08-2003 12:29pm

I got the modem working last night. Lucent LT WinModem. I'm actually using Knoppix right now

I'm downloading the ILUG version in work at the moment, and I'll burn it when I get in later on today. I have my doubts over whether they "de-nerdified" it.

Here's an example of some of the opaque program names in the K-Menu:

Xbiff
dillo
gq
mtr
kppp
Xaos
Xev

Could do with a bit of user-friendliness I reckon

Stephen · 31-08-2003 3:41pm

Another thing sorely lacking from Knoppix is USB mouse support. As a fairly inexperienced stranger to knoppix/linux in general, this was quite a pain in the arse

It also doesn't like my common as muck onboard AC 97 soundcard.

If it wasn't for my games, the usb mouse problem and the lack of support for my ridiculously common sound chipset, and my inexperience with linux, installing linux would actually be viable.

Until all that crap is sorted out I'll stick with Windows 2000 thanks. The "M$ sucks!!11!" type zealots don't attract newbies to linux either I might add.

Capt'n Midnight · 31-08-2003 7:51pm

have a look on the www.knoppix.net forums

And yes my usb mouse works with it..

As for winmodems - the clue is in the name... - where manu have released info on the modem drivers have been written

They still haven't put open office 1.1 on it so you may have printing problems in excel.

BTW: How long does XP take to install / reinstall ?

They could do with a folder of scripts for loading devices
eg: mounting iomega parallel port zip drives uses a different script to the zip plus ones

As for keyboard - click on the us flag and change it to uk (how many times have you had to change keyboard settings in windows) - there is a desktop menu so you can change the settings to resemble windows (or MAC) if you so desire.

in the knoppix menu you can save the cfg on the HDD - and load it up afterwards...

Eurorunner · 31-08-2003 8:29pm

What size is the knoppix iso??

Typedef · 31-08-2003 8:39pm

<=300MB.

Eurorunner · 31-08-2003 8:44pm

Originally posted by Typedef
<=300MB.

Cheers.

zekiel · 03-09-2003 12:49pm

<=300MB

Nope. Downloading the ilug version now.

its 636mb

scojones · 03-09-2003 1:56pm

just burnt the iso of it. this can't be bootable? can it? dir tree is this:
KNOPPIX (directory)
www.veritysystems.com (directory)
index.html (duh!).

Typedef · 03-09-2003 3:14pm

Well, if you want to get semantic.

It's.
667291648 bytes.

In any case, I'm farily sure you can get versions without KDE, which are smaller.

Gerry · 04-09-2003 3:28pm

Originally posted by Stephen
Another thing sorely lacking from Knoppix is USB mouse support. As a fairly inexperienced stranger to knoppix/linux in general, this was quite a pain in the arse
It also doesn't like my common as muck onboard AC 97 soundcard.

If it wasn't for my games, the usb mouse problem and the lack of support for my ridiculously common sound chipset, and my inexperience with linux, installing linux would actually be viable.

Until all that crap is sorted out I'll stick with Windows 2000 thanks. The "M$ sucks!!11!" type zealots don't attract newbies to linux either I might add.

Well, you could try installing linux in the normal way, then you can set it up exactly how you want. Of course linux supports your onboard sound, its just that knoppix didn't include it.
The zealots might be a bit annoying, but why does that actually matter? You can read slashdot on windows or linux, you'll still get annoyed by the anti-ms ( and anti-BSD ) heads.

zekiel · 04-09-2003 5:43pm

Using the modified version of knoppix now. Its the security version you can dl. I'm running it on a laptop on a wireless lan and it works a treat. This is pretty cool.
Fast + efficient:D

out of the box linux

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