low volume training

Vincent

what are peoples opinions on low volume training (ie. 1 warmup set, one workout set) ?

Also is it ok to do a 3 day split if ure only gonna be doing it 3 days as opposed to A,B,C,X etc (X = day off). If ure only doing 3 days a week would it be better to do a 2 day split instead?

Jak

Discussed a bit in this thread.

Bottom Line - I don't believe in it. I have met two people who followed a HIT Regime similar to what you suggest and they were in my opinion in poor shape.

For an extra half hour you could turn such a program into something far more useful.

Gym training includes - changing/getting there etc. - saving time on reps is a bit silly. If you are not considering it to save time, but rather because you may feel it is a better approach, don't. It isn't.

From experience I know that without proper warm up sets - I would reach about 50% of my potential on a second set.

For example, on a chest session, I usually find the very 1st warm up set of 15 at 60kg a bit stiff, sore etc. 2nd set of 10 at 100kg also kinda sore. This usually continues for about 3 or 4 sets after at lower reps and higher weights.

If I was to try 10 reps at 140kg after only 1 set - I wouldn't have a hope, same with top rep sets. If I had a go at 185kg after just 1 warm up set at 60kg I would crucify myself.

And if you don't take the time to get really into it for the heavy sets there is no way a second set will see you getting good returns.

JAK.

Vincent

Thanks jak. How many sets would you recommend? Atm Im doing 1 warmup set at 50% weight and 3 workout sets (same weight, im not able to finish 8 reps on last set and its a real struggle on the 2nd on most exercises)

And anybody any opinion on my second question?

Jak

Don't really understand your 2nd question.

As for sets and reps it all depends on the overall program.

I use some excersises purely as warm up excersises such as lat pull down and row - before shrugs and lower back work.

It is mostly about flushing the area with blood.

As a rough guideline I'd say you need a minimum of 4 sets of a warmup. Plus watch your weight jumps. Try to keep the gaps between current weight and last weight reasonable, again too big a jump can lead to failure/injury.

So if you tried 140kg for 5, don't jump to 190kg for 2. Put an interval weight in there. Try to structure a steady build up to your top sets.

However much of this depends on you - so try to find what works best.

JAK.

Kell

This might sound a bit dumb, but up to now I havnt been doing warm up sets. Its straight into x weight times 15, heavier for ten and heavier again for 8.

As a warm up set Jak, would you suggest something like 1/2 of x weight at 15 reps and so on based on pattern above, or am I completely off base here?

Must go buy a book, must go buy a book.

K-

Jak

Ok it is a little tricky to explain as there are exceptions ...

As a reasonable example of how tricky defining it can be generally for a chest day, my warm up session goes something like this ..


Incline:

12x60kg 10x100kg 6x120kg 5x140kg

Bench:

10x100kg 6x120kg *** after this set I consider myself warmed up - it is somewhat a personal thing but those first 6 sets are all harder than they should be as I'm not fully warmed up ***

Continuing on - the rest of the program is all work - regardless of reps - as by the end I am fairly fatigued and muscles have been overloaded.

Bench:

4x140kg 3x150kg

Incline 2:

3x145kg 3x165kg 1 or 2x185kg

Bench 2: ** Now these sets are lighter with higher reps - but they are very much work sets - having overloaded at the higher weight on low reps - this really nails the muscle group I find. **

10x140kg 10x140kg

Incline bench burnout: ** Again here it is a light weight for a lot of reps - but the preceding work and fatigue and the fact it is a burn out make it a work set. **

30-40 reps (failure) x 60kg

---

So basically - warm up sets are neither the weight nor reps specifically - it is what you do up to the point where you really are pumped up for the session. It will depend on the type of program you are following and your own level of preconditioning. Simply - work it out.

JAK.

Kell

Just one question on that Jak, how long does it take you to do such a session? I am beginning to see how it works now. Also, have the warm up sessions been a major benefit to you?

Cheers again,

K-

Jak

Depends on the number of people there. Business of the gym etc.

If just me and my brother - maybe 75mins. As we have less weights to be changing and usually move quick. Though also I tag on some bits and pieces at the end as well.

With 4 people of varying strengths maybe over 2 hours.

I have always used warm up sets - just not always enough of them. Yes I consider them a massive benefit.

JAK.

Kell

Jak, gotta say, started using warm up sets this week and by last night, I had hit a personal best. Its a pity my arms feel like they cant do anymore halfway through the warm ups and that they are going to fall off today, but ta for the advice.

K-

MoosemaN

I must say I beleive in max 1 hour trainings, because of the following reasons.

The most beneficial workouts take place in less than one hour. After that, you start going backwards. Levels of testosterone and growth hormone, which begin to rise shortly after the onset of the workout, begin to decline. Levels of cortisol, a powerful anti-catabolic (muscle depleting), stress hormone begins to rise. For extended workouts, the body may even begin to catabolize its own muscle tissue in order to provide the necessary energy to continue. In other words, instead of getting bigger, you may end up getting smaller.

Jak

I agree to a point. I don't think you can say <1 hour is always the most beneficial.

Pace and rest between sets can play a major role in how much I can lift and push myself in a given session. 1 hr 10mins with bro or 2 hours with 4 of us - never seems to make too much of a difference. Though ideal is about a 90min session including CDS and abs.

As regards the cortisol point, well yah, that would be why I never tag on an extended cardio session at the end of a session, and would rather keep them to a distinct day. As cardio alone is low testosterone higher cortisol, so on the back of a weight training session it just is not a good idea for mass/muscle building.

But the effects can be controlled somewhat by steady supplementation during and after training. In a session I will usually have about 2 litres of lucozade sport in a high mix with maltodextrin. This combined with a good diet and keeping fuels stocked up should stop cortisol being much of an issue. In any case, for most people, they are not even approaching the intensity or duration in their workouts necessary to lead to cortisol breaking down muscle.

JAK.

MoosemaN

Agreeable a lot of people do not train as intensely as I do.

But I see it like this, why go to the gym if you do not put an effort in training correctly.

I always try to get a 90 seconds rest in between my sets.

But I do not know the exact effect on the body if you take longer rest between sets in regards to the onset of cortisol and lowering values of testosterone and growth hormone.

Have to do some research about this.

Jak

But I see it like this, why go to the gym if you do not put an effort in training correctly.

Who isn't training correctly now?

MoosemaN

Originally posted by Jak
Who isn't training correctly now?

Sorry didn't mean to point fingers at anyone..

I was referring to this sentence
"In any case, for most people, they are not even approaching the intensity or duration in their workouts necessary to lead to cortisol breaking down muscle.
"

What i meant was is that I see alot of people that stands around talking about life etc etc and do a set every 5-7 minute..

It has been proven that the intensity is an important factor of your development..

Jak

Aye I agree.

But I am of the opinion that most people in regular gyms are just marginally above the "completely wasting their time" level anyway.

A bit cynical maybe, but some people train in such a lacklustre, haphazard and random fashion that it is no wonder they get little or no results.

JAK.