rewiring house, setup for Home Entertainment

propertynewbie

Hi,

Looking for some suggestions. We are re-wiring our house at the minute and would like to incorporate our sound system into the living room.

At the moment we have a 3-disc AKAI with Dolby Sourround sound, Akai DVD player and a Nicam Video player.

we were looking at getting an amp and new 5.1/6.1 speaker system. Anyone have any suggestions ?.

Was also looking at putting in CAT5 cabiling from the pc to the TV to allow it to play some stuff downloaded from the web.

again suggestions and reccomendations welcomed.

thanks

PN

Kali

hi welcome to the forums...

suggested reading:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57906&highlight=wiring

and linked from that thread:
http://www.dolby.com/ht/Guide.HomeTheater.0110.html

A few extra suggestions:

Sounds like your jumping in head-first.. pick up a copy of What Hi-Fi or any "consumer" home cinema mag, have a read through it.. they'll nearly always have a section on home-cinema and their best buys... start from there, read additional reviews on the web and then go pricing.

Wiring wise:

I'd run semi-decent (or as good a quality as you can afford) speaker cable to the rears, possibly adding in extra runs for future additional speakers (either one or two with Dolby EX or DTS ES.. or 6.1)... make sure its in seperate ducting from any power cables... also don't be tempted by cheap cable, your rear speakers will just die.

Also leave the front cable as easy to replace as you can (if possible avoid any behind wall installations), that way if stereo performance/cd listening is something you will be doing in the room then its easy to move the front speakers and replace the cable if its not to your liking sound-wise.

Fallschirmjager

here is my tuppence worth on the cat5. did you look at wireless kit instead.

it has come down a lot in price and i plan to use it when eircon finally sort out the broadband issue....which will not be anytime soon

propertynewbie

Cheers for the replies.

At the minute am looking at the different systems, picked up a copy of WhatHiFi also, interesting stuff.

Attached is a copy of the basic plan for the room. We are going to be starting work on it at the end of the month so hope to have it all finalised by then.

What do you reckon about the positioning of the speakers ?. Again any suggestions comments welcomed ?. Also anyone know any decent site for explaining the basics ?.

Would this be the way a basic system works :
- speakers connect into reciever which connects to tv
- Tv displays image, reciever produces sound to speakers ?.

Or in the case of a DVD player
- Sound goes from DVD player to reciever to speakers
- image goes to TV via scart/composite?

So you need a good reciever and good set of speakers ? What determines if you have 5.1 sound - the speakers or the reciever ?- If you plug 5 speakers and a sub into the reciever will it be 5.1?

Thanks, and apologies for the beginner questions

Kali

you've got hte basics right as far as connecting to the receiver goes...

Speakers -> Receiver- > DVD/TV/Console/VCR/CD/Hi-Fi

So you need a good reciever and good set of speakers ?

Ideally yes.

However you can go for an all-in-one system if you prefer (the likes of sonys DAV-S???) which have a dvd player/receiver in the one package plus come with all the necessary speakers... generally ok for small rooms, lack a bit of power though, and the dvd player or receiver components may not be up to much.

The better (and usually more expensive) option would be to purchase a seperate receiver (Marantz SR5300 for example) and a DVD player along with a 5.1 speaker package of which there are a few (Mission, KEF, Monitor Audio all do damn good packages)...
the benefit of this is that if you decide that any component is failing to cut the grade somewhere down the line you can upgrade it.

What determines if you have 5.1 sound - the speakers or the reciever ?- If you plug 5 speakers and a sub into the reciever will it be 5.1?

The input source. If you play a DVD that only has stereo than you'll only get stereo... if you have one with 5.1 or DTS encoded sound then the receiver will pick this up automatically and playback using the required number of spakers.

A lot of receivers will have what are known as DSP modes (digital signal processing) which can turn stereo signals into surround audio... (Cinema/TV/Game/Hall/etc.) .. Pro Logic II is the Dolby version of this and is excellent (particularly good when just watching TV and you want that "full surround effect").

Kali

Oh as far as the speaker positions go.. it seems fine (presuming theres a couch between the two rear surrounds...

Theres not too much (basic-wise) to speaker positioning:

Putting a speaker with a rear-firing bass port near a wall will usually increase the bass, even more so when situated in corners... grand with detailed/neutral speakers, not so desireable with already bass-heavy speakers (become too boomy).

Centre speaker should generally be the exact same distance from the listener as the picture (either directly above or below the TV).

The front speakers would have to be angled in slightly towards the listener so they form a triangle (left-listener-right).

Height-wise, its generally best to keep the tweeter on the front speakers close to head-height.

You can also set the distance on the receivers setup menu from each pair of speakers.

This can then be fine tuned further (again with the receiver) by setting different levels for each speaker so the sound is balanced.

propertynewbie

Kali, cheers for that.

Am looking at the Marantz SR5300 you suggested and also into the 5.1 speakers - have to keep em small if possible - the other half already has some issues with 5 speakers, not to mention a sub

With the Marantz is says :
I]The SR5300 A/V receiver has six 90-watt discrete amplifiers [/I]
- does this mean that if you get a 100 watt speaker it would run at 100watt, only 90 ?

Do you know what would be the best type of cabling to get for the speaker wires ? and also what type of connections can one get. i.e. if I take down a speaker there isnt just a wire dangling from the ceiling !.


Again thanks for your help.

Kali

and also into the 5.1 speakers - have to keep em small if possible

I don't know your budget, but if you're keeping them small and quality is an issue than take a look at the two links I mentioned in the Sony/Bang&Olfusen thread (two speaker packages around the 1000-1500 mark)..

If you're looking cheaper than a Mission package would be a good bet (small enough, but still slightly imposing)... their surround speakers look nice on the wall too.

Cheaper and smaller again would be Sonys pacakges (I think they do seperate speaker deals without the receiver/dvd player).

does this mean that if you get a 100 watt speaker it would run at 100watt, only 90 ?

nah.. power rating is just the max average load they can take... they'll probably never go that high.. (75W is more than enough for any house & ears to withstand).

Do you know what would be the best type of cabling to get for the speaker wires ? and also what type of connections can one get. i.e. if I take down a speaker there isnt just a wire dangling from the ceiling !.

It depends on your budget

For the fronts and centre speakers something decent quality... nice thick wire with good shielding and try to avoid in-wall runs.

With the surround cabling, because they'll be going in ducting, you'll be limited by width, but again something pretty well shielded.

As for the connections you can get wall-plugs (brass plated or whatever), connect the walled wiring to that and then a tiny short piece of cable to the back of the speaker, looks neater, but not very good if you want to move the speakers though...
I'd probably just leave the speaker cable coming straight out and cover it with the speaker anyway.

HybridHumour

Originally posted by Kali
...try to avoid in-wall runs.

Probably a very stupid question but, why avoid them?

propertynewbie

Kali,

Thanks again, nearly getting there just have to settle on a reciever and speakers.

I have and old Akai HiFi which has dolby surround speakers, 2 large 150w fronts, centre and 2 sides. Would I be able to use these in a 5.1 setup ?- i.e. by just plugging them in and have a 5.1 source (DVD for example) - obiously would lose the ".1" as no sub would be in it at the minute.

Also just as HybridHumour asked, why would I be better to not have an in-wall runs - do you mean have them running along the skirting ?

The DVD player, also an AKAI, has DTS AFAIK, but I amint sure about 5.1. If the DVD player doesnt have it the sound wount be produced in 5.1, correct ?

Cheers again

ShaneOC

Some DVD players have a dolby digital (5.1) decoder built in but most do not. Almost all DVD players will output the digital signal (either Dolby Digital or DTS).

You will have to check if your DVD player has a decoder built in before we can tell you if you'll get Dolby digital or not.

Good luck with the house!

Reading through that other thread brought back memories!

Kali

Hybrid.. front speakers tend to be moved about a good bit, they're positioning is important for good stereo listening... having the speaker cable run through the wall generally means you don't have as much freedom and leeway in their positions, also in case you wish to upgrade the speaker cable in future its a much easier chore. For the most part surround speakers will stay put once you initially decide on a room layout. Then again thats just my preference and the way I have things setup.. I'm always testing various speaker cable on the fronts anyway

I have and old Akai HiFi which has dolby surround speakers, 2 large 150w fronts, centre and 2 sides. Would I be able to use these in a 5.1 setup ?- i.e. by just plugging them in and have a 5.1 source (DVD for example) - obiously would lose the ".1" as no sub would be in it at the minute.

If it has 5 seperate (analogue) inputs for each channel then yes. All you would need would be a DVD player with 5.1 analog outputs (or pre-outs)...

if it doesn't you will just end up with stereo and whatever pseudo-surround effects the Akai can provide.

The DVD player, also an AKAI, has DTS AFAIK, but I amint sure about 5.1. If the DVD player doesnt have it the sound wount be produced in 5.1, correct ?

When using a digital connection it doesn't matter as all the processing would be done by the receiver, i.e.. its up to that to proportion out the given signal to the various speakers.

As far as analog goes see above... (if the player can output DTS into 5.1 analog then it can do the same for Dolby 5.1)

Hope that helps,
Ken

propertynewbie

Thanks again for all the advice.

Ok so what a need is :

1
get a good Amp which supports 5.1(6.1, 7.1?), dts, dolby etc.

2
A new set of speakers(like the Kef system which I can upgrade to 6.1 by adding a new speaker?) - or I could use my speakers from my old hifi(of which there are 2 fronts, centre, and 2 rears) and get a sub - which plug into the amp.

3
A dvd player which supports 5.1 and which will connect to my amp to produce sound and to my TV (via scart?, sVideol, RGB ?) to produce a picture.

4
A VCR to connect to the amp again for sound and to the TV (via scart?) for picture.

5
Then I can proceed to add a CD player to the amp and use the same speaker system for the sound with no problems ?.

6
Alot of speaker cable!
(http://www.beyondhifi.net/shopping/MoreInfo.asp?ProductID=288&CatID=276 )


Q?
Will I be able to connect my tv directly to the amp ? Or would I have to watch the TV via the VCR channel to get the benefit of using the speakers ?.

Any suggestions for speakers, dvd player, TV and vcr welcomed!

Thanks again

propertynewbie

What would you reckon do theses ?

Pioneer SV50B 5.1 Speaker
http://www.homecinemaheaven.com/prod_info/speakers/avpack/sv50a.htm

Pioneer VSXD512 AV Receiver
http://www.homecinemaheaven.com/prod_info/amps/vsxd512.htm

Again any suggestions welcomed!

Kali

weird I could have sworn I replied to your post before that one... so a quick repost:

3/4: Usually most receivers will accept video inputs and allow switching between the inputs (i.e. choose DVD and the video and audio change).. connect the DVD/VCR to the receiver via S-Video or Composite Video (bog-standard yellow cable).. and the TV to the receivers "Monitor/TV-Out"... you'll usually have to choose the A/V channel on the TV for this.. tis handy, I had 2 consoles, a VCR and a DVD connected to my receiver at one stage.

5: Your DVD player will play CDs.. no real need for another one... but yeah you can connect anything with L/R outputs to the receiver (theres usually about 6-8 analogue inputs).


As far as the two Pioneer systems go, I've no idea about either, haven't heard them or read any reviews... I am a fan of Pioneer electronics though, and their CD Players and Receivers are generally quiet capable sounding for the price (the speakers I wouldn't have any opinion on).