TG4 in Northern Ireland

West Briton

From UTV: a little something we missed.

"Availability of Irish-language TV in North discussed

Television viewers in Northern Ireland are a step closer to receiving the Irish-language channel TG4.

Both the British and Irish governments are currently working on making the channel available throughout the island by the end of this year.

The availability of TG4 has been demanded by nationalists in the North as a component of the Good Friday Agreement.

Speaking in Dublin Castle , Irish Foreign Affairs Minister Brian Cowen said that a number of legal issues relating to broadcasting TG4 in Northern Ireland remain and must be ironed out."

Good news!

egal

Could you be a bit more specific about the source of this, please?

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by West Briton
From UTV:

loftus

If TG4 is put on in the north will thay put it on sky or cable in the UK?

a bientot

Once TG4 is available in Northern Ireland it must also be seen by those living on (their) mainland, that is to say, The British Isles.

Mossy Monk

says who?

RTÉ1 and Network 2 are available on NTL in Northern Ireland but not in the rest of the UK

lawhec

I'm very sceptical about this announcement.

For a start the UHF band in many parts of N.Ireland is crowded. Look at the restrictions on five for a start.

Most of the North already can receive TG4 from border transmitters, namely Clermont Carn, Truskmore, Holywell Hill, Moville and possibly others including Carin Hill and possibly Kippure in some pockets.

The only places I know where RTÉ signals cannot be received is parts of West Belfast and in the Antrim Glens where Divis is hard enough to pick up, and relays are needed. The vast majority that want TG4 can already get it terrestially.

The only way possible I can see it is via DTT - possibly on BBC's Multiplex B sacrificing an interactive stream, Multiplex 2 where Channel 4 are not using all of their bandwidth and the ITC/OFCOM may mandate the channel on the multiplex or (the more likely) a slot on the SDN multiplex (within N.I. only), with the fee paid for by the UK & Irish government.

DMC

But, more interestingly....

http://www.nio.gov.uk/press/030723a.htm

"The Secretary of State, Paul Murphy MP, today announced his intention to provide support to Irish Language broadcasting and that work has started on establishing a business case for an Ulster - Scots academy.

Announcing the decision, Mr Murphy said: "I am pleased to announce that proposals to provide support for Irish Language film and television are currently being developed. Subject to a satisfactory business case, a fund, which will be in the region of £12m over 3 years, will be confirmed during the summer months.

"I am also pleased to announce that, in line with the Government's commitment in the Joint Declaration to encourage support to be made available to an Ulster-Scots academy, work has now begun on the development of a business case". "

and more...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0724/north.html

"The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, has announced that a fund for Irish language TV and film production is to be established.

The fund, which will be in the region of £12m sterling over three years, will be confirmed over the summer.

Both Sinn Féin and the SDLP have welcomed the fund which was promised in the Good Friday Agreement.

TG4 currently receives €20.06 million per annum from the Irish Government.

The British government provides £84m sterling per annum for Welsh broadcasting and Scots Gaelic broadcasting gets £12m sterling per annum. "

Mossy Monk

it is pathetic when you compare it to what's given to Scotland and Wales. it's a start though

Elmo

Scottish TV only get 12 mill per year from the British Government
Wales gets 48 million or something like that.

TG4 gets 20 million from Exchequer plus 6mill from RTE and now 4 million from britian

30 million plus advertising rev is not bad on the whole scale of things.

Genghis

Isn't it funny to see how things have to be step-in-step in the North. Paul Murphy couldn't issue a press release about the Irish language without also mentioning Ulster-Scots (a language which is spoken by nobody, I believe).

You know, if TG4 had their head screwed on they would apply for equal funding and then show a couple of shows a week in Ulster Scots. An extra 12 million, and no-one could tell the difference!

Mike 1972

Most of the North already can receive TG4 from border transmitters, namely Clermont Carn, Truskmore, Holywell Hill, Moville and possibly others including Carin Hill and possibly Kippure in some pockets.
The Monaghan relay is used by a lot of people in Armagh

The only places I know where RTÉ signals cannot be received is parts of West Belfast and in the Antrim Glens where Divis is hard enough to pick up, and relays are needed.

Ummm AFIK anywhere from Larne Northwards Its usually pretty difficult and some parts of the Ards peninsula cant get either Kippure or Claremont and places like Mossley Carnmoney Hill is in the way

RE: Squeezing it onto the SDN multiplex It could be accomodated in place of S4C

Richard

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
it is pathetic when you compare it to what's given to Scotland and Wales. it's a start though

But Wales has a large number of people for whom Welsh is a first laguage. Scotland has some (mainly on the islands and mostly Presbyterian!) for whom Scots Gaelic is a first language. But Northern Ireland has very few native speakers of Irish, though a sizeable number learn it at school. So you have to look at it in that respect.

Also, I think some thought to be given to other languages. For example, Mandarin Chinese is the second most spoken language in N I, and there is next to nothing for them.

Don't forget that there is around 4 hours of Irish language Programming on Radio Ulster per week (though nothing on TV for years).

watty

TG4 gets better analog coverage than Five up North. My Mum didn't know "Five" existed till she got Sky Digital.

They can make it available on Sky cards up North: Easy.

Cable: Possible, may already be on some. RTE1 is at my Dad's house in Belfast on NTL cable (He has Digibox too, but no sub on it)

DTT: vaugely possible.

It is unlikely to have better Analog coverage, as this is why "Five" is not carried on many transmitters.

Perhaps it might be added on one or two isolated relays.


Ideally it should be on FTV card up north but this is dead duck. Since it is a subscription channel here, Family Pack in North is likely.

watty

Originally posted by Richard
Don't forget that there is around 4 hours of Irish language Programming on Radio Ulster per week (though nothing on TV for years).

I used to have to "block" mid day Welsh on NI TV in case this would give a local demand for Irish. Scotland and England got that BBC Wales program though!

It was official Gov. policy that BBC was to have no Gaelic or Welsh transmissions in N.I. at the time.

Note only private Catholic schools learn Irish. My "State" Schools I attended did not teach Irish.

Unfortunately BOTH sides have always insisted on segregated Education. That sort of narrow minded State Supported Apartied is even illegal in Southern USA and South Africa where they are supposed to be more racial.

Both Sides in Belfast for example have more in common with each other than anyone in Dublin, Liverpool or Glasgow.

Very sad.

Perhaps everyone in N.I. should spend 6 months abroad to get a fresh perspective. I have spent 20 years "abroad" now, including over 1 year outside British Isles, so I feel my perspective is somewhat changed.

Still, I never did paint kerbstones Red/White/Blue or Green/White/Orange or beat people with Iron Bars, so it might not work as well for some (Being abroad).

There is a band of perfectly ordinary houses 1/2 way up Whitewell Road / Serpentine Rd in Belfast I saw last week. Boarded up. More "Tricolours/Starry Ploughs" and "Union Jacks/Loyalist Flags" in the area than I have seen in England or in the 26 Counties. These people need to start living in the real world or their children are doomed to live like refugees.

SRB

Ahhh yes, the classic frame roll, followed by black and tone, or sometimes a Cymru/Wales caption followed by frame roll black and tone.....

watty

Originally posted by SRB
Ahhh yes, the classic frame roll, followed by black and tone, or sometimes a Cymru/Wales caption followed by frame roll black and tone.....

Or a bit more if someone was delayed bring down the dinner tray

Once the "supervisor" looked up and saw / heard "Welsh". Paniced and threw the switch. I came over and pointed out it was in the NI RT! He'd killed the annual "Estedifod" (sp) thingy which WAS supposed to go out.

Beleive it or not all we ever had to go on was comparing an English and NI ordinary Radio Times. If the program wasn't listed in NI edition we threw the switch to Test Card.


Did I tell you the story about the "spinning world globe"?

Richard

Originally posted by watty
I used to have to "block" mid day Welsh on NI TV in case this would give a local demand for Irish. Scotland and England got that BBC Wales program though!

Which is rather silly to be honest!

Unfortunately BOTH sides have always insisted on segregated Education.

Well there aren't really any Protestant Schools (that I know of) any more since they became state-owned many years ago.

I once asked Monsigneur Denis Faul on his views on Integrated Education, and he was against it. I sensed his heart wasn't entirely in tune with what he was saying, however. It is a pity really because I quite admire the man otherwise.

That sort of narrow minded State Supported Apartied is even illegal in Southern USA and South Africa where they are supposed to be more racial.

But in good ol' Norn Iron we're a funny lot. To be fair I think "State Supported Apartied" is a bit of an exaggeration. The problem is that is difficult for the government to go against certain interests. Especially during the "Troubles" when there were other thngs to deal with.

Things have changed over the past few years and will continue to do so. For example, there is the EMU (Education for Mutual Understanding) scheme, whereby schools with children of different backgrounds can get extra funding for joint trips and events.

But it is difficult to move away from Church-run schools to a more integrated system when parents continue to send their children to these schools.

I remember that Catholic Schools and other non-controlled schools got only 75% of the money that went to state schools. This was changed 10 or so years ago. I imagine this is because that it was discriminatory to keep the disparity.

For the record I went to a non-controlled school which had been non-denominational from its outset in the late 19th Century. It reflected the religious makeup of the local area pretty well, and no-one complained that its motto was in Irish! I don't believe sectarianism was ever an issue at our school, even though it was mixed, so I got a bit of a shock when I started Queen's.

Both Sides in Belfast for example have more in common with each other than anyone in Dublin, Liverpool or Glasgow.

I have said this for a long time. But many people don't realise it - they overstate any differences and ignore any similarities.

The sectarian nature of politics here doesn't help - why should parties be defined by their opions on ONE issue?

Perhaps everyone in N.I. should spend 6 months abroad to get a fresh perspective. I have spent 20 years "abroad" now, including over 1 year outside British Isles, so I feel my perspective is somewhat changed.

Well the past three and half years "down south" certainly did me good.

Still, I never did paint kerbstones Red/White/Blue or Green/White/Orange or beat people with Iron Bars, so it might not work as well for some.

Neither did I, and I can't understand the mentality of people who do. And when you see areas festooned with flags it just looks terrible, no matter what flags are used. The place for a flag is on a flagpole where appropiate - not tattered and hung from a lampost.

Having said all this, I do believe that Northern Ireland is the best place in the world. I just hope things continue to move in the right direction.

SRB

Actually that's not strictly true, Scotland didn't take the Welsh programming and it was certain English Transmitters only - ie those which covered parts of Wales.

Watty - maybe you can tell me why BBC NI never had a testcard - they always just dropped to black and tone. Scotland used to go to a testcard and even played a "pop" album instead of library music. (When you heard Live and Let Die by Wings you knew progs would be back in 10 mins)

As for the spinning globe and it's ever increasing islands......

watty

We did I'm sure have a test card. Maybe it got broken.

The NI spining globe lived in a VERY small continuity studio.

Black painted globe with internal lamp, I suppose if the paint flaked you got another island!

A curved mirror behind it.

Pointing at it was an old B&W image Orthicon camera.

As I was showing it to my Girl friend (now wife) somehow the name plate fell off the bottom of the box. I clipped it back on and just as we turned to leave it came on (Light and rotation)!

This was mid/late 1970s.


AFAIK many so called "State Schools" have in reality mainly Prodestant Clergy controlled boards / Goveners (sp) .

Of course some would have been non-denominational nevertheless. Part of problem is that in many areas (much more now than in 1960s) the population is very segregated, so as a result unless you "bussed" people the schools are very highly segregated.

Also there is a culture of not accepting anything different. In 1990 my school going kids where horribly bullied at quite ordinary NI schools while we where in the North for 6 months (2 months was summer).

As "prodestant" children in Irish Catholic Schools and 1 year in Israeli School they never had such a problem.

(We just told them to politely ignore all the stuff about Mary in School and they and we had no problem with the Irish Catholic Religious Education, which seemed mostly better than the rubbish I got at School).

rlogue

Watty, the presentation team in BBC Belfast have been trying to locate the old globe. Do you know where it went after decommissioning?

watty

It was still working when I left.

Honest

But last year someone on Media Uk Forums (now relaunched as "real name discussions") claimed knowledge of it and knew its location I think. http://www.mediauk.com/

Try asking there in TV chatter. If you arnt a member you'll need to be verified as a real name. If that is a problem or too complicated I'll go and ask on your behalf.

DMC

Are they looking for the globe for some festivities for the 50th, Richie?

watty

Apparently folks er, "preserved" a lot of these from around the country "at home". The london one is in a Glass case in a BBC office with a model of Big Ben used in the 1950s. Most of the others have apparently "dissappeared"