Honorifics

dahamsta

Sorry, doesn't fit anywhere else...

I know that the Irish government has to approve honorifics before the queen hands them out to Irish citizens, but where does the law stand on /use/ of them? I ask out of curiousity because I noticed the other day that Tony O'Reilly uses his "Sir" on Eircom documents.

adam

sceptre

Tony carries a British passport these days so he's probably a special case. As far as I know he didn't have to get the same permission as, say, Geldof did to accept the thing.

(anyone know if he still uses his Irish one?)

Sir Anthony Wedgewood O'Reilly isn't it? Oops, no, that's another Tony.

dahamsta

Other way round sceptre. See the first result (ireland.com) for mention of Geldof, who apparently didn't need permission because his was honorary and he didn't kneel before the queen. That article also mentions that he's still an Irish citizen, so I guess he probably uses the passport occasionally to impress New York investors. I guess if the government gave him permission to accept the knighthood he's free to use it, but it'd be sweet if we were able to force Eircom to recycle all their documents and print new ones, eh?

Sir Anthony Wedgewood O'Reilly isn't it? Oops, no, that's another Tony.

There can be only one TOR.

adam

sceptre

The wedgewood mention was an irrelevant gentle jibe at Tony Benn (Anthony Neil Wedgewood-Benn to his school chums) - completely forgot O'Reilly was chair of Waterford-Wedgewood. Interesting stuff in the link - I've had it backwards for some time then.

I suppose if it's that important to him and all that (it was an honour for actual charity work) there's no real reason why he shouldn't use it or be prevented from using it. His doctorate is honorary though isn't it?

I don't actually begrudge the guy his success (before the usual moaners step in). I just don't like his crap newspaper (or the other ones) - opinion masquerading as reporting usually gets my goat. The €ircom involvement is an added bonus.

The Corinthian

Irish aversion to aristocracy and any honorific is largely born out of over-compensation for it’s past under British rule. Unfortunately, this has resulted in a situation whereby there is no way of honouring those who have supplied exceptional service to the State. Not only are we the only European state not to have some form of honour system, but even Europe’s republics (such as France, Italy and Germany) have them as did Eastern European states, even back when they were communist!

Meanwhile we have ‘the freedom of the city’ and honorary doctorates... :rolleyes:

Sparks

To answer the question, you need permission to get the title, not to use it. So once you have it, use it as freely as you wish.

TC, I think that the actual reason for the constitution prohibition on accepting titles without prior approval is soverignty rather than prejudice.
Article 40, part 2:

2.___ 1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.
2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Sparks
To answer the question, you need permission to get the title, not to use it. So once you have it, use it as freely as you wish.

And what if you have dual nationality?

Shinji

Unfortunately, this has resulted in a situation whereby there is no way of honouring those who have supplied exceptional service to the State.

Given the utter farce that the British honours system has become, I'm not sure that's a bad thing at all. Most of those receiving OBEs, knighthoods and so on at the moment are involved in oil companies or PPP firms - men who have grown very very rich off the back of other people's misery or public money.

The vast majority of public honours in Britain are nothing more than an expression of cronyism and political angling for position with the morally bankrupt "captains of industry".

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Shinji
Given the utter farce that the British honours system has become, I'm not sure that's a bad thing at all.

Oddly enough countries other than Britain have honours systems. It's interesting that your comparison is in keeping with our traditional need for over-compensation for our past under British rule...

Sparks

TC,
If you have dual nationality you still have to ask. You have to obey both sets of rules, not just the one you want...

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Sparks
If you have dual nationality you still have to ask. You have to obey both sets of rules, not just the one you want...

But what if you inherit the blasted thing then..?

Sparks

How the hell do you inherit dual nationality?
And technically, you wouldn't need to worry, as the title was intrinsicly yours - ie. it wasn't conferred on you.

Shinji

Oddly enough countries other than Britain have honours systems. It's interesting that your comparison is in keeping with our traditional need for over-compensation for our past under British rule...

Oooh, either that, or I'm making a direct comparison with our nearest neighbour and the honours system with which the vast majority of Irish people are most likely to be familiar. That's also possible, isn't it Sigmund?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Shinji
Oooh, either that, or I'm making a direct comparison with our nearest neighbour and the honours system with which the vast majority of Irish people are most likely to be familiar. That's also possible, isn't it Sigmund?

Possible, but unlikely. I've noticed that whenever this topic is discussed in Ireland the "direct comparison with our nearest neighbour" is almost without exception also the only one that ever proffered.

Paddy20

Any human being that accepts any type of title that would appear too indicate that they are more than mere mortals, are clearly out of touch with their own mortality and humanity as a whole.