Happiness & Vipassana

Dagon

Ok, I tried to email Gordon and it didn't work so I'm going to do this publicly.

I was the guy who posted that thingy on happiness.

I'm a regular human, not some spam bot trying to get your cash.. my name is Colin and I'm from the Co.Sligo.

And I occasionally post on the metal/rock forum - in fact I know the mod pretty well from metal gigs.

I found something really positive in life, I wanted to share it, simple as that. Looking at the "Are you Happy" thread REALLY made me want to post about my amazing experience with Vipassana...

I do agree with Gordon looking back though - it did look a bit like spam in certain parts. Ok, maybe it was badly written (I know certain parts had an air of sensationalism, but thats the way I felt when I was writing it). And maybe it was a dumb idea to do it anonymously, for I just felt like doing it anonymously so I did. I didn't think it would get such a negative reception.

I would be happy if Gordon would please put it back. Or at least email it to me and let me re-post it - I don't have a copy of it here, and it actually took me a while to write.

I just really wanted to tell other people about something that will REALLY help them, and give them a lot of happiness if they chose to do it. I was in a mood where I felt like spreading this great benefits of this technique...

Surely it's no crime?

BTW - in the future before you consider something spam, do a little research into what it's about. If you had visited the Vipassana site you would have found out something more about it - i.e. that it's not another one of these money based organisations.

This can give true happiness.. no bull$hit!!!

Too good to be true? Well, it's actually hard work and it takes dedication and perseverance to make the technique work... but sometimes when I'm walking around, I do think to myself " this is too good to be true, this life is too good to be true"....

do I sound like an idiot?

maybe I do, but I don't give a rats ass anymore :P

Dagon

By the way, Gordon, please email me if you have any further issues:

dreamspace9@netscape.net

And if you think I don't exist or something, email Angelwhore and ask HIM!!!

"Rock Hard Ride Free" - Judas Priest

GuanYin

Originally posted by Dagon


This can give true happiness.. no bull$hit!!!

Too good to be true? Well, it's actually hard work and it takes dedication and perseverance to make the technique work... but sometimes when I'm walking around, I do think to myself " this is too good to be true, this life is too good to be true"....

do I sound like an idiot?

maybe I do, but I don't give a rats ass anymore :P

so where were we? Oh yeah...
"nananananananana leader....."

Seriously though, I'm very curious as to what you define as happy And in what ways are you happier now then before? Are there any specific tales or anecdotes ? And how you attibute this to whatssamecallit how exactly?

Gordon

We understand Dagon. Incidentally, why did you post as Unregistered originally when you already have an account? Or maybe that is a personal issue in itself.

I don't have the original post, this old ubb software sure does some strange stuff sometimes etc etc. So apologies for deleting without saving your post.

Although your original post smelled of cultish behaviour, I personally don't mind if you have another go but my fellow mods may not be as nice... Please don't sound like you have found the way to infinite happiness as we all know that you don't get anything for free in this world, and the site you posted seems to suggest that.

Gordon

Dagon, why not start again in a new thread. I'll put this thread somewhere else.

smiles

Okay first off you should have realised from the editting and the post that it wasn't Gordon who deleted it, it was in fact me.

The entire thread ranked of cult like behaviour tbh, and I had several people PM me on IRC and ask me to take a look at it.

Plus it was advertising of a sort, since you're saying it's free (there are sometimes catches with 'free' things as you well know) i'd suggest PMing one of the admins and asking if they feel ok with it being advertised here.

In the mean time, please feel free to discuss the meditation, etc. that you found so helpful, surely it's not limited to one particular company / source.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but it seemed quite dodgy.

<< Fio >>

Dagon

Yeah I understand why it sounded dodgy.

Let me clarify a few things:

Vipassana is not a company, sect or organization. It is a religion or an indoctrination. It is not a profit-making organisation/company. It is open to peoples of all races, faiths and backgrounds (I met both athiests and catholic priests in my time there). It is very much getting away from "separations" created between humans, such as religion.

It does not have representatives who go out and preach but word does spread among those who are into this area. Mostly though, it's word of mouth. Thats why I used this forum to help spread that word.

As for the concept of "free". Well, I know some people who were on my course who are quite poor and have never paid a penny to Vipassana because they can't afford it. There were also quite wealthy people there, and they would probably make big donations. These things would cancel each other out so that the course going costs are covered. So it's a non-profit organisation, and everyone working there do so voluntarily! In fact, I will probably work there at some point to help out becaue I have seen so much evidence that the technique works, and that people become very happy!

At the end of my course, so many people felt like myself - that this technique realy, really helps us - and that we would try to spread the word so that more people can come out of their misery.

I even met a man who was in a bad motorcycle accident, he told me that Vipassana helped him to overcome the pain in his legs, and to help him walk successfully again.

More people should do this.

The "Are you happy" thread proved to me that many people on this very forum could REALLY get something from the technique.

Hope things are clearer.

In my original post I was just being honest about my experience, it's a pity it was deleted because I really don't feel like writing all that again... but did any of you actually take the time to read it?

www.dhamma.org

Dagon

Originally posted by Gordon
we all know that you don't get anything for free in this world, and the site you posted seems to suggest that.

Yes you are right - there is nothing for free in this world! And Vipassana takes hard work! In this respect, it certainly is not free. In the 10 days of the course, some people can't handle it and leave... it's tough going unless you are a very disciplined person (and I was not) but with hard work, you can do it and attain some amazing results.

Not everyone will simply do a course and become happy, but in my experience it seems to work for everyone I spoke to on the course (except for the priest - who preferred "christian meditations").

Benefits? Different for everyone. For me, it had a very positive effect on absolutely everything in my life. Even things I hated before, or things I found hard.. you are more chilled out overall.

You don't take things so seriously either, and you stop taking yourself so seriously

I could go on for hours... but you'd get a better, simpler and more accurate description from on the website.

www.dhamma.org


PS. You're right, meditation is certainly not limited to one source, but Vipassana is in itself a particular source that I found most helpful. Other sources are book, like:

Deepak Chopra - Seven Spiritual Laws
Dhiravamsa - ALL

Dagon

Originally posted by sykeirl
so where were we? Oh yeah...
"nananananananana leader....."

Seriously though, I'm very curious as to what you define as happy And in what ways are you happier now then before? Are there any specific tales or anecdotes ? And how you attibute this to whatssamecallit how exactly?

It would take me a few pages to answer all that but; I used to hate the word happiness. For years I didn't think happiness existed, and for me it didn't. Really it's just another word, a label. Who is to say what it is... It's nothing concrete, but it could be said to be a state of neither craving or aversion, but total equanimity - balance of the mind - and maybe maybe some blissful feelings. Contentment, living in the present moment. Not centred on satisfying ego. That sort of thing.

Bear in mind, some of these words were alien to me a few years ago!

Shad0r

I'm always hugely suspicious of any "religious" group that offer happiness. especially when its for free,

Dagon, that web site seems to associate itself with Buddism or at least uses the term a bit I noticed. How like Buddism is it?

Also how has it changed your life in real terms? (for example, how many of the people you used to be friends with, before the course, are you now still friends with? How many of your lifes ambitions/goals are now still ambitions/goals?)

WhiteWashMan

warning Will Robinson....

GuanYin

Originally posted by Dagon
It would take me a few pages to answer all that but; I used to hate the word happiness. For years I didn't think happiness existed, and for me it didn't. Really it's just another word, a label. Who is to say what it is... It's nothing concrete, but it could be said to be a state of neither craving or aversion, but total equanimity - balance of the mind - and maybe maybe some blissful feelings. Contentment, living in the present moment. Not centred on satisfying ego. That sort of thing.

Bear in mind, some of these words were alien to me a few years ago!

So basically, what you do is avoid real questions about the claims your making with pseudo-philosophical babble?

I'm not going to get into a religious debate but really, if you can't give us anything concrete most people will look on your posting with heavy suspicion. Too many cults have sprung up in Ireland of late offering lots of promises but "we can only tell you if you join".

To Quote Pratchett:

"What is the difference between a humanistic, monastic system of belief in which wisdom is sought by means of an apparently nonsensical system of questions and answers, and a lot of mystic gibberish made up on the spur of the moment?"

Shinji

Can't say I've ever been that interested in trying it myself, but Vipassana meditation is not a cult - it's a pretty well accepted and indeed well researched set of meditation practices which fall broadly within the Buddhist religion. Probably the best known proponent of Vipassana is Aung San Suu Kyi, and I don't think anyone's going to accuse her of cult behaviour

It's all fairly traditional meditation stuff - practice stillness, slight sleep deprivation, focus on breathing and so on. There are certain cult-ish elements like repetition of certain phrases and so on, but as there's no follow-up to the free courses it cannot be considered a cult, and the phrases themselves are innocuous enough.

Dragon isn't promoting a cult, basically. He does seem pretty excited and gushing about the whole thing though, and I'd hate to be stuck in a pub with him because I suspect he'd never shut up about it

Dr_Teeth

You don't sound happy Shin, there's this course though...

Teeth.

jammy_dodger

Im not gonna give my opinions wether dagon is valid or not, But bottom line this isnt a personal issue, more of a personal expeirience.
Best thing to do would be put a link to Dagon's pm in one of the sticky's for awhile, with his consent.
And if anyone is interested, pm him

Sev

Originally posted by sykeirl
I'm not going to get into a religious debate but really, if you can't give us anything concrete most people will look on your posting with heavy suspicion.

Em... How is somebody supposed to prove to you that their happy? Apart from tell you with abundant enthusiasm which he has clearly done. How can he possibly try to define his happiness without it coming out like 'pseudo-philosophical babble'? Maybe your question is just a little too hard to answer straight?

GuanYin

Originally posted by Sev
Em... How is somebody supposed to prove to you that their happy? Apart from tell you with abundant enthusiasm which he has clearly done. How can he possibly try to define his happiness without it coming out like 'pseudo-philosophical babble'? Maybe your question is just a little too hard to answer straight?

Good Answers:
I am happier because:
a) I have more self confidence (how?)
b) I have over come my insecurities (how?)
c) I put my troubles in perspective (how?)
etc...


Bad Answers:
I am happier because
a) the people told me I am
b) I have achieved a higher state of mind
c) The leader will take us to his home world after we drink the magic punch.

etc...


Chirst, all I'm asking is whats involved. If on day 1 he's not happy and day 14 he is, I assume he has some recollection of the events of day 2-13 that he can share with us.

Sev

So, one can't be happy without having a reason for it? Happiness is not an absolute, but the product of a number of definite factors? And to say you're happy without giving 'concrete' reasons is just a load of bollox?

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying you're right. I'm just asking questions, ones I'm in no position to answer myself. It's a habit.

Just I know myself, that I would have serious difficulty trying to explain to somebody exactly how or why I'm happy. It's a bit of an abstract concept to me. I guess some debates are down to opinion and/or faith... as dodgy as it sounds.

Dagon

Some interesting responses here! Although it does seem there are people who are being cynical just for the sake of it.. open your mind a little perhaps?

sykeirl, let me try to respond.

Originally posted by sykeirl
Good Answers:
I am happier because:
a) I have more self confidence (how?)
b) I have over come my insecurities (how?)
c) I put my troubles in perspective (how?)
etc...


Bad Answers:
I am happier because
a) the people told me I am
b) I have achieved a higher state of mind
c) The leader will take us to his home world after we drink the magic punch.

etc...


Chirst, all I'm asking is whats involved. If on day 1 he's not happy and day 14 he is, I assume he has some recollection of the events of day 2-13 that he can share with us.

As one of the other posters mentioned, this is an abstract concept, and not one that can simply be answered by some sort of "happiness checklist".

But I will say that the top a, b and c are true for me. And the bottom b to an extent.

Sadly, people still seem to be calling this a "religion" which it isn't.

To again clarify:

- Not a sect
- Not a religion
- No BLIND FAITH
- No ritual (although there are some chantings which you may or may not decide to take part in, up to you)
- The technique is totally open to your own interpretation

Shinji has it right to an extent.

But this meditation technique, as currently taught by S.N. Goenka, is not "a part" of the buddhist religion. It could be said to be a form of buddhism however, but in truth it isn't because the whole point of Vipassana is that it is NOT a sect, or a religion, and all these ISM are! Vipassana is universal - for everyone! This is how Buddha originally intended his technique to be - he did not want them to make a buddhism out of his technique - because this is another relition/sect. He did not want rituals, or robes, or statues or garments - that was not for him. It was more about a simple universal technique to help everyone.

Another thing, it is excluding nobody. It has even been taught in prisons to serial killers and thievs, and apparently there were some good results. Again, this is more evidence of how the technique can help anyone - provided the individual is prepared to work..

This a "personal experience" rather than a personal issue?

I don't agree! People come onto this forum and complain about how bad life is. I come on here, and speak about how **** my life was, and how I improved it, and I show people how to do this the way I did - and you now say it isn't a valid thread? Madness... this is my personal issue - just because it isn't a negative problem that needs to be solved does not make it an invalid thread.

MojoMaker

Please recount days 2-13 for us and stop sidestepping around the questions you are being asked. Unless you want to be dismissed as a complete sham you will have to stop being so circumspect, otherwise don't bother posting.

Humphrey

I heard about Vipassana awhile ago.

It is very well respected and is definitely not a cult.

I think people on this forum are a bit ignore towards it, maybe people should research things they know nothing about before putting it down.

Mike Meaney has a good account of it on his personal website.

I'm sure he wont mind me posting this link:

http://www.mikemeaney.com/diaries/diary13.html

Humphrey.

Dagon

It's a 10 day course - and you want me to recount from the second day to the last?

Well, right now I don't have the time to do that. And if I did, it would take quite a while and a lot of effort - and then how am I to know that it wouldn't get another pile of cynical responses claiming that I'm making it all up???

Still, you've actually put an idea into my head. Perhaps it's worth taking the time out to perhaps put together a website devoted to showing my own personal experience with it.

There are lots of things on the dhamma.org website that you can read about how it helps you over the course of the 10 days. Read into it a little, then come back to me with questions about *my* personal experience, and the things that worked for me. There no point in me trying to rewrite what is already on that site for the benefit of this forum.

As for sidestepping around questions - it's unfortunate if that appears to be what I am doing, but I promise you this is not what I am doing. I am answering what I can, and indeed I'm probably not doing a great job, but I've never been good at expressing spiritual stuff in writing.

Dagon

Thanks Humphrey, I think you've helped there more than a little

Perhaps I should have posted a link to something like that earlier on, only I didn't realise that people would be so painfully skeptical!

Dagon

Just to quote Mike Meaney:

"There is no religion taught during the course, the course has nothing to do with trying to convert people into Buddhists. The centre where I was for example is regularly attended by the Jesuits in Kathmandu, as Catholic a bunch of dudes as you're likely to find. Vipassana is not some sect, there is no questionable 20th century spiritual guru involved. As a method of meditation its credentials are hard to beat. Not only does it come straight from one of history's greatest religious leaders but for a course to offer its services for free, to exist solely on the donations of past students and still be able to build over 40 permanent centres worldwide in 20 years or so is a testament to its power. "

Couldn't have put it better.

Obviously Mike Meaney is better than me at explaining Vipassana

Humphrey

No problem Dagon.

I was very surprised by the cynical reaction you were getting so I thought I'd say something.

Fair play to you for sticking out the course, I know a little about it and respect it - but I dont think I would be able to do it

Humphrey.

p.pete

Which religions aren't open to everyone (except the bad people)?. One person's money is as good as the next. As for being thought in prisons - the average boxer comes out of prison with a new belief system (usually Islam). Budhism not being the way Budha intended - neither are most religions that have been around long enough to have been twisted and warped by power hugging small minded people.

Cynicism aside (it's what I do best and I'm not even sure if I spell it right) happiness is something that interests me. Having read most of this thread I have not really seen any kind of an explanation as to what it is.

Unfortunate that the original post was deleted - was there an explanation there?

I agree that happiness is something that is hard to pin down, so perhaps, as an excercise, you could try to describe it without the use of adjectives (at least avoid the overuse of).

GuanYin

I'm cynical about everything, its my job.

For the record, I'm a buddhist and I practice meditation.

However, what bothers me is not what you are saying, its the way you have gone about saying it.

For instance your initial post looked for all the world like a chain mail.

Now here on boards, things get thrashed out, dissected, put back together, re-dissected and then hung on the wall for viewing. Its what I like about it.

You have come to us with a "Personal Experience" in a "Personal Issues" forum and not actual applied anything personal to your posts.

Every time you say "its too long to get into". Now I'm a glib, cynical, sarcastic and above all suspicious, bastard. When I see you continuously give pamphlet blurbs and dodge straight questions about your "personal" experience, then alarm bells ring.

If you were to give less of the commerical rhetoric and a little bit more of a personal insight (which is what I've really been asking for all along) people might respond better.

denis

Originally posted by p.pete
Which religions aren't open to everyone (except the bad people)?. One person's money is as good as the next. As for being thought in prisons - the average boxer comes out of prison with a new belief system (usually Islam). Budhism not being the way Budha intended - neither are most religions that have been around long enough to have been twisted and warped by power hugging small minded people.

Cynicism aside (it's what I do best and I'm not even sure if I spell it right) happiness is something that interests me. Having read most of this thread I have not really seen any kind of an explanation as to what it is.

Unfortunate that the original post was deleted - was there an explanation there?

I agree that happiness is something that is hard to pin down, so perhaps, as an excercise, you could try to describe it without the use of adjectives (at least avoid the overuse of).

I don't think he started the thread to try to define happiness, but to let people know about a type of meditation that made him happier. It was when people started hounding him about the specifics of this happiness (why would he lie, by the way?) that everything got sidelined.

I think he's had a bit of a rough ride with this thread, to be honest, and it's completely undeserved. The meditation is blatantly not a cult, it's open to everyone in that (unlike religions) it doesn't try to convert your basic religious beliefs. It can be attended for free, and contributions are welcome.

What, please someone tell me, is wrong with that?

Humphrey

Hi p.pete ,
Did u read Mikes Diary On it?
http://www.mikemeaney.com/diaries/diary13.html

Humphrey.

p.pete

Having read through the link posted by Humphrey it actually sounds quite interesting.

I don't know whether it would change my life or enrich it - certainly it would be an excellent cultural experience.

It seems to be about focusing the mind on the bodies sensations and learning to take note of what your own body is telling you and not just acting on auto-pilot which is what the majority of us do.

The 10 day course sounds like quite a hard graft - and on the surface, based on the account in the link there does not seem to be any hidden agenda. 10 days without talking sounds quite difficult and I would be reluctant to try doing it in Ireland - at least if I was somewhere else like India there would be less of a temptation.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Mike Meaney
There is no religion taught during the course, the course has nothing to do with trying to convert people into Buddhists.

Step 1) encourage course take-up by reassuring people that there is no religious involvement

Originally posted by Mike Meaney
Not only does it come straight from one of history's greatest religious leaders...

Step 2) use it's religious connections to encourage course take-up

</pedantic>
</cynic>

Dagon

I actually reckon this is one of the toughest tests I have faced since I did the course... all this mindless skepticism and negativity...

This time last year, I would have gotten very angry with people like sykeirl and Silent Bob, and more likely have just told them to feck off..

But I'm not!

Surely thats proof enough?

Or are you deliberately trying to frustrate me to just see what happens? Cause you're not doing a bad job

But I'm not angry with you, I just feel sorry that there are people here who are living such unhappy, negative lives (they have said this in another post), who have such suffering.. who do not seem to accept that there is a way out.

I don't know what to say anymore, I'm a little disillusioned with this place TBH... seems the reasonable people are outnumbered by those who just want to insult me.

Please go back and read what Denis said above. Does this not sound reasonable?

Confused

Shad0r

Originally posted by Silent Bob
Step 1) encourage course take-up by reassuring people that there is no religious involvement

Step 2) use it's religious connections to encourage course take-up

</pedantic>
</cynic>

:rolleyes:

Ok I've read most of the site you linked Dagon and it seems innocent enough but I'd still like to have my original question answered (which it hasnt been as of yet):

How has doing the course affected you in real terms? (i.e. - how many of your original friends are still friends and I'm also wondering how it changes your belief structures particularly with regard to ambitions/life goals?)

GuanYin

Originally posted by Dagon
I actually reckon this is one of the toughest tests I have faced since I did the course... all this mindless skepticism and negativity...

This time last year, I would have gotten very angry with people like sykeirl and Silent Bob, and more likely have just told them to feck off..

But I'm not!

Surely thats proof enough?

Or are you deliberately trying to frustrate me to just see what happens? Cause you're not doing a bad job

But I'm not angry with you, I just feel sorry that there are people here who are living such unhappy, negative lives (they have said this in another post), who have such suffering.. who do not seem to accept that there is a way out.

I don't know what to say anymore, I'm a little disillusioned with this place TBH... seems the reasonable people are outnumbered by those who just want to insult me.

I dont think I insulted you. Nor did I try insult you. or display pity. Surely this is a very negative attitude to display towards someone. I did comment on your lack of any personal insight to the topic you are posting about. All your posts have skirted around this. And seeing as you are posting on a subject, I'd have thought at least give us your personal insight and experience as I'd be more inclined to try it than just going o n the blurb you have recited so far.

To be fair, and feel free to tell me otherwise, I thought my last post before this was quaite resonable. I was trying to explain what my views were. But again you ignore the question I have repeatedly asked you. But so long as you pity me its ok.

Samba

Just reading through each reply in the last thread puts the question in to retrospect, you can't sum it up in a paragraph or with a simply y/n answer(well there is always an exception).
|
Skyeirl/Dagon \/

What is percieved as negative to one can be positive for the other......

Do not be so close minded to different opinions and beliefs, instead try to understand them, at least try look at things from each others perspective. (only my opinion)

If you do not take this into account, you may aswell have a blindfold on.(again opinion)

Perhaps you both have alot to teach eachother?

Personally Im a glad that you are happy in life Dragon, I am not going to question your happiness,I will simply accept it and try to understand it, but please do not display arrogance from this (which personally I think you did)

Just keep an open mind.

It is a strong belief of mine, that withing each religion/Sect/Cult etc no matter how wacky, there is always a grain of information which is worth extracting and considering(please do not quote me out of context ), try to focus on anything which could be positive and helpful to you, instead of looking for the negative. (and if nothing arises after this, bash away, at least you took it into consideration)


Someone go dig Freud up and we will settle this!


I just had to see this thread........

nn

Dagon

Indeed Samba! There is a little bit of truth in everything I feel.. and a lot of truth in some things.

sykeirl, I would like to know what form of Buddhism you practice?

As for pity. In fact I didn't say I pitied you, but I do feel a lot of empathy towards the people here mainly because I see fragments of myself in you, and in some of the cynicism and mindless negativity I have lessened in myself (not fully eradicated).

You can read up on this in a few places - not only the website for the technique but also on Mike Meaney website. I don't have the time or the money to spend hours on the net to answer each and every question about my entire experience (as you can see, I don't post much and have cut down a lot of my net usage) and in any case - as I've said - I'm pretty bad at writing literally about my own spiritual experiences because a lot of it is very hard to express, convey or put into words. I'm also a little lazy on top of all that (especially when there are other, probably better, sources where you can read up on this) ))

Still, I will answer some of the questions put to me, albeit rather more briefly (and more to the point) than I would like. My original post was deleted, and it took me some time to write. I really didn't feel like doing it all again (everyone knows what it feels like to lose a large piece of text you spent ages writing)....anyway:

Q - "how has it changed your life in real terms? how many of the people you used to be friends with, before the course, are you now still friends with? How many of your lifes ambitions/goals are now still ambitions/goals?

A. What are real terms? It does not make you richer. It does not eliminate problems that occur in life. It does not help you to escape from the troubles of life. It does not help you to change your personality. Problems will still occir in life, bad stuff will still happen. Sometimes really bad stuff will still happen. It does not help you to improve your luck or to grant you wishes. You will still have a lot of the same hurdles, tests and general ups and downs of life that you had before.

So why do it? Because - despite all of the above - it really has changed the WAY I deal with and interact with this world. You are more calm and peaceful, pretty much all the time. When you are very unlucky, or something really crap happens to you - you do not suffer so much. Sometimes you only suffer very briefly, and someone established in the technique claims they do not suffer at all - I am not even near this stage of enlightenment. But I will happily tell you that I know I am on the right path towards my goal

More and more in life, I feel unhappiness is creeping away from me. I am a free spirit more and more, I do not take things - or myself - so seriously at all. I can sit back and laugh at the madness of it all... the madness that before I was so caught up in and so involved in that I was on the verge of wanting to END it all. Now it seems I feel myself being relaxed, jovial and chilled out more and more of the time, and I also feel that I can spread this onto other people if I wish, and usually I do.

I was never into drugs much, but this techniques has convinced me that all drugs are entirely unnecessary. I still have friends who do drugs and I do not have problems with this if that is what they really want to do.

When it comes to people, I wish everyone well. My old friends are still my great friends, and I am making new friends all the time. One very good friend in particular commented to me one day that "I was glowing" and he was wondering what had happened to me, or what I was doing (I think he thought I was on something).. later that night I told him of my experience and he listened without prejudice, open-mindedly, and is interested in trying it.

Some parts of my nature have not changed much. I can still be quite a reclusive person at times, and I like to spend time out sometimes away from people. I spend a lot of time with my music, and with the music of other artists I enjoy. I often go into my own world, playing and making music, when most people my age are out partying. Playing music or taking part in sessions makes me very happy, it's where I like to be... I spend time with animals and in nature, and this makes me very happy too. I feel I am doing what makes me happy so it's not a problem for me. And when I do go out I really enjoy it and make some friends to make up for my "time out".

Also, I can still be quite lazy when I feel like it, and I really often take life at a more chilled out pace than most. But I'm not botherd so much by that, I can accept my own faults. I still have many faults - Vipassana does not claim to turn you into Mr/Ms pefect, but again, I'm more observant of them and I feel I'm able to look at them rather than be ignorant of them as I used to. I still make dumb mistakes at times, and I still sometimes say stupid things I shouldn't but again, I'm don't feel the same misery I used to when problems arise. And I am not ignorant of my failings.

Barriers have virtually been eliminated between myself and other peoples and groups. I was always a quite open person, but I did have issues with certain people/groups. I had my own prejudices.. but this only contributed to misery and isolation. Now I feel that I do not look at who the person is, but the quality of the person. And I'm more open to the faults we all have as humans, and non-judgemental. I don't see any walls between people anymore, and I can tell you it's one of the most amazing feelings I have experienced.

Misery, pain, resentment, low confidence, hypersensitivity, self-obsession, egocentricity, greed, anger.. blahblah - all of these things have been greatly reduced since I did Vipassana.

My life has greatly improved - simple as that. I don't know if I have had a single bad, unhappy, boring or miserable day since. The fact that I can't recall one is surely a good thing? Everything now seems like a learning experience, and positive or negative, everything has benefits and lessons. My enemies and my friends are both my teachers. I feel inspired by everyone and everything.

I finally found something with no restrictions, limits or mindless or controlling rules and alterior motives - I can't believe my luck, and I'm only 23. Some people have spent their lives searching for the answer, or for happiness. I feel I have found it.

And for the record I am not bull$****ting on any of this. If you don't want to believe it - it's up to you. You should also note - it's also possible that I could be full of $hit but am just ignorant to that fact myself As I've said, my way may not work for everyone, and I am not simply "right" in everything I'm saying - I could be wrong!!! Go and find the truth for yourself... but there a lot more people who will testify that all the above is also true for them so.... give it a try.

It's also possible that I could be wrong, and that Vipassana is not the true key to the meaning of life and to happiness; but take my word - as dodgy as that might (or might not) be - it is these things to me, and to most who have tried it.

And thats why I came here, to spread the "word" about this. It might not be your thing... but the teeny, and seemingly increasingly slight possibility of someone on these boards becoming happy through this made it *imperative* that I post about this. Even if everyone is cynical and complacent in their unhappiness... it was worth a try. And it has been interesting to have to answer up to all you cynical feckers, a good experience in the end

Dagon

Maybe I am being a bit arrogant in all this Samba... something I need to work on?

Just my way of communicating though, more than anything else. I find writing on the web often comes across wrong (for me in particular), and sometimes enthusiasm can be perhaps mistaken for arrogance? But maybe not.

Old habits die hard in any case. But they *can* die!

Dagon

Another question I forgot about:

Originally posted by Shad0r
:rolleyes:

I'm also wondering how it changes your belief structures particularly with regard to ambitions/life goals?)

I am very much living more existentially - in the present. This doesn't mean I don't plan, I do. But not everything in my life revolves around the future, and less and less of my thoughts are related to that which does not exist (i.e. the future).

Belief structures - I do not see the sense (for me) in having a very rigid and definite belief structure in a place. I do believe however that morality, and certain simple guidelines - as taught by Buddha - is important for me, and helps one to live a more positive life. These guidelines (not rules, but simply things you may or may not want to consider) also help me to live my life very much "in line with the law of nature" as Goenka would have it!

I think we are all standing on top of a treasure chest that we are afraid to open (as seen from some of the responses). Some people simply have given up on the idea that you can have something like this, and that it could work. This is unfortunate..

Also, with regard to this question of belief structures, more and more I am seeing evidence that tha people in our western society - and in particular the children - are growing up with a belief system that has some good points but puts the focus in all the wrong areas. Rituals, blind faiths, readings, learning off prayers - I feel these things do not really help children to truly learn peace, happiness, respect, love, compassion. They only serve to confuse the issue. The real solution is total simplicity - it couldn't be more beautiful. Evidence of some of the the failures of our current "belief system" is everyhwhere. In the paper, on the news, on this very forum... we need to focus more and more on what is important. That said, catholicism for instance has some very beautiful and wonderful elements... but they are all too often lost among all the blind faith, ritual, rules, exclusions, prejudices, walls, separations, etc. etc.

Silent Bob

Dagon. You are taking healthy skepticism very personally.

Skeptics ask these questions because we refuse to believe something until there is a reasonable bit of evidence put in front of us.
This is the attitude that has helped man's technological progress right from the off.

The more fantastic the claim, the stronger the evidence required.

e.g. If you had said that you walked to the shops yesterday no one would contest that, it's a very likely thing.

What you are saying is that you 'found true happiness and we can too' this is a rather more fantastic claim and, as such, skeptics require greater proof (the 'cultiness' of the original post does no favours in this regard).

I, myself, levelled no insults at you or the meditation technique that you claim works for you (nor has anybody else for that matter). I pointed out an inconsistency in Mike Meaney's explanation of why the course is good, even indicating that I was being excessively cynical/pedantic.

Dagon

Healthy skepticism?

To be honest, I have my doubts about skepticism

GuanYin

Originally posted by Dagon
Maybe I am being a bit arrogant in all this Samba... something I need to work on?

I'd add paranoid and patronizing to that aswell, but don't worry, I dont necessarily see any of these as bad things in the right context.

For my part, all I ever asked was that you related to us on personal insight and not just by reciting pamphlet blurbs (which you will have to be honest, alot of you text was). You eventually did that to some degree, for which I thank you.

What you have to understand is, this is not a pulpit (least I don't think it is). Id expect anyone who has an opinion on anything I posted to answer back, be it in a positive, negative, cynical, sarcastic or, pedantic way. Its the whole point of boards.

I'm entitled to my opinion, but more importantly I'm entitled to ask questions and not take everything people say at face value. When people stop asking questions, men with hot branding irons tend to appear and people get nailed to bits of wood. If indeed you have no inclination to answer my questions (which you, for the most part already have, and again thank you) then just say so, but don't play the persecuted martyr.

Anyway, I'll bow out, by saying I wish you well with your new found happiness and I hope it continues.

Dagon

I'm glad you're being honest. And I think everyone is entitled to their opinions. This is a given... you are entitled to ask questions. Absolutely. But have you really read all my posts? Really? Did you read what Denis or Samba or Humphrey have written? Have you visited the sites and check this out? It seems you aren't to me, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by sykeirl


What you have to understand is, this is not a pulpit (least I don't think it is).

You just aren't getting it, are you? Ok, let me make it even MORE simple :rolleyes:

- Me = pissed off with life
- Me = unhappy nearly all of the time
- Me goes on a big search for the answer to life, little success in finding anything of worth.. even more unhappy, disillusioned.. etc.
- Me finds some positive stuff (books mostly) in the midst of all the bull**** and hypocrisy
- Me finds a course in IRELAND in the same vein as all this great positive stuff that just feels right, and it's FREE
- Me goes to course and becomes very happy as a result
- Many problems are solved , life is good.
- Me aware of the suffering in the world
- Me sees posts on boards that are blatantly looking for a way out of the unhappiness
- Me shows them a good path to take that can help

And then we have people like you complaining ... Do you now see how ridiculous this is? Do you not want to help people come out of their misery?

"This is not a pulpit"

I don't give a fukk for any of these labels to be honest. All I know is that it's a place when I can spread a positive message in the midst of a load of unhappiness and disillusionment. Simple as that.

If you think thats unreasonable then you need to get out more and live life.

Life is too short for wasting time being unhappy!!!

Originally posted by sykeirl


Id expect anyone who has an opinion on anything I posted to answer back, be it in a positive, negative, cynical, sarcastic or, pedantic way. Its the whole point of boards.

I'm entitled to my opinion, but more importantly I'm entitled to ask questions and not take everything people say at face value.

Ehmmm... I agree 100% !?!? Is this not all assumed on a forum such as this? I never complained about people asking questions or even being skeptical at the start, (you're entitled to) I just got a little tired of it when it got mindless, persistent and a little up-it's-own-arse... even AFTER I made an effort to answer some of the questions.

Anyway, I don't like the way this discussion is turning out so I will also bow out and leave people to decide for themselves on this. I've said what I wanted to say.

Although if anyone has anything positive to say, or is genuinely interested in this and has some interesting questions, I will check back to answer them.

Peace out!

GuanYin

Hrmmmph!

He doesn't seem very happy!! :rolleyes:

p.pete

Dagon, I read the link to the guy who did this in India and it sounds both interesting and good. I also got the impression from him that it is not a panacia.

I really wouldn't expect anyone to read all of your posts - but it is quite possible that Sykeirl has, he still will have more questions, but that is the nature of people who try to understand things. We'd be lost without them.

You seem to be taking anything negative quite personaly, almost as if it is not the methods that are under discussion but the faith that you have placed in the methods. You don't like how this thread is turning out but did you ever imagine that you could control it? We are not attacking your happiness, just your exuberence.

I'm delighted for you, that the course has given you all that you say it has. I may in the future try it out myself - but not because I will be expecting the same dramatic results. It would be interesting to see if I can do it etc. You shouldn't be so paranoid and be taking the whole thread as a personal assault - we cannot take away from you what you have gained unless you let us.

Dagon

Honestly, I have serious problems communicating electronically it seems..

Some of my responses are proof that one vipassana course does not make you perfect! But it helps, and all of the stuff I've said is true for me. And I intend to do at least one course a year from now on...

I'm not really taking anything personal, I just thought people would be more open to something that would help them, or potentially help them and change their life, especially when there are so many "personal issues" here that seem to be driving people mental. But it seemed people got the impression I was making it up, and I wasn't prepared for that response at all (my own stupidity perhaps?) - because I was being 100% honest. So honest in fact, that originally I had not intended to post under my own name cause I'm a little bit private usually about this sort of thing and don't speak about it unless asked.

Anyway, thanks for all the positive responses (they're in there somewhere), and thanks for the criticism. this has been worthwhile!

Shad0r

Dagon thanks for answering my questions. I dont think that they were the answers I was looking for but perhaps I either asked the questions wrong or perhaps (which is much more likely) I was looking for unobtainable answers.

Either way thanks for bringing Vipassana to our attention. Meditation and what people claim to be able to achieve from it has always been something thats interested me so I may give it a shot someday, altho 10 days of sitting on a hard floor and not communicating with anyone else may be an insurmountable task for someone who likes to talk as much as me

Silent Bob

Dagon: If ones mind is so open that one accepts anything new that one hears, we would still be living in the Dark Ages under the reign of the Church...

Your mind should be open to new ideas, but there has to be a tempering factor (i.e. skepticism).

I am perfectly prepared to accept that Vipassana works for you and that it may work for others too, providing that there is enough evidence to do so.

Skeptics do not refuse to believe new things, they just won't until there is a sufficient body of evidence for such new things.

WhiteWashMan

jesus!
can somebody please just attend the course and come back and report on it?

this seems to be going around in circles!

p.pete

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
jesus!
can somebody please just attend the course and come back and report on it?

Could be good for you WWM:D

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by p.pete
Could be good for you WWM:D

indeed it could, but since i live in the UK, im gonna have to give it a miss.

surely there are some unemployed bums that have souls worth saving!

p.pete

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
indeed it could, but since i live in the UK, im gonna have to give it a miss.

surely there are some unemployed bums that have souls worth saving!

Theres a place in hereford that does the course - dates coming up July 23, August 6 & 19.