Are Netsource going to throttle heavy users to 256K ???? Probably not...

NITEMAN

Just called a friend who was in the pub last night also.
He said this guy didn't even work for Netsource anymore.
He was just bragging that he knew something that we didn't (i only ever met him once but apparently he's always doing that).
I'm a total dismisser of even second-hand info (it gets distorted, like it did from me to you).
This is now second-hand info to me and third hand to you guys.
Also now that i hear he's not the best fan of netsource, i think the info was unreliable.

Sorry i even started this thread, so i'm editing this to reflect the unreliability of the info that was given to me. I think i jumped the gun a bit based on my slow speeds today and my eagerness to hear 'inside news' last night.

If anything further comes to light please let us all know.

Sorry for the wild goose chase (i hope).

shinzon

this is good news, the warez monkeys will be throttled down and itll be a better service all round.

God ye cant have a both ways, ye complain its ****e when ye have the full service and now your complaining that netsource is trying to do something to combat the warez people

Christ that makes my blood boil

Regards

Shin

NITEMAN

so now its only half as good as the other services and a lot more expensive.

Also,
How do you know (excluding idle speculation, anyone got proof) that it IS down to warez monkeys that netsource is so bad.
It could also be that Netsource are just not good at running this type of business.

What i don't like is that they plan to do it without telling anyone.
Its also not in their contract that they can do this, so they shouldn't legally be able to reduce someone forcefully down to 256k.

I have a friend who's boyfriend works there and he got a little too chatty in the pub last night.

shinzon

move from netsource, its 2 months ye dont have to stay there, you yourself said heavy users, this implies warez monkies, im sorry but you cant have your cake and eat it, the proof is that this is an uncapped product you can download what and when ever you want

uncapped product (attracts warez like flies to ****e)

Regards
Shin

NITEMAN

Shinzon, just get down off your soapbox for a minute.
My company pays for this service.
They have paid for this service for the year in advance.
Is it not a simple thing to expect to get what you pay for (to have your cake and eat it because you paid for it?).
A service without a cap is what we need so that we can download database backups, audio files for voice call backups etc.
I reckon we would download maybe 10GB a month on a heavy month and not less than 7GB ever.
We are not a big company. only getting started, so cost is very important to us. Also download speed is very important to us as we are under time pressure and cannot wait double the time for downloads.
The only thing that slows down usually are the pings (who cares, we're not worried about them, but some people are.). Download speeds are more or less constant 56K.

This is not being a warez monkey, this is using a service as it was described in the Terms and conditions and so it should be provided as stated in them don't you think?

What you have said is not proof either. Its your opinion, so don't tout it as fact.

BoB_BoT

is it not in the netsource contract that they will supply you this product/service as you have paided for it? i.e. you've paid for 512 and they're giving you 256. i know all companies have little catches in their contracts but downgrading your service isn't covered in that catch i'd imagine. shinzon does have a point about the warez monkeys to an uncapped line, but as you've pointed out if your a business or just a heavy user that is doing legit things on the net, video conferencing, comp sharing etc... they shouldn't be punished for what they paid for!

so my question is can they legally downgrade the service? if not just have a friendly chat with them or go to consumer complaints etc...

NITEMAN

Thanks Leggo,
Don't know if we'll be on of the victims, but i'll be seriously pissed if we are.

MrPinK

you've paid for 512 and they're giving you 256

That's the thing with RADSL tho, you haven't paid for 512k, you've paid for up to 512k.

It don't think it'll be a problem as long as they have a reasonable definition of a 'heavy user'. I'd call over 25 gigs a month a heavy user.

shinzon

Originally posted by NITEMAN
Shinzon, just get down off your soapbox for a minute.
My company pays for this service.
They have paid for this service for the year in advance.
Is it not a simple thing to expect to get what you pay for (to have your cake and eat it because you paid for it?).
A service without a cap is what we need so that we can download database backups, audio files for voice call backups etc.
I reckon we would download maybe 10GB a month on a heavy month and not less than 7GB ever.
We are not a big company. only getting started, so cost is very important to us. Also download speed is very important to us as we are under time pressure and cannot wait double the time for downloads.
The only thing that slows down usually are the pings (who cares, we're not worried about them, but some people are.). Download speeds are more or less constant 56K.

This is not being a warez monkey, this is using a service as it was described in the Terms and conditions and so it should be provided as stated in them don't you think?

What you have said is not proof either. Its your opinion, so don't tout it as fact.

well unfortunately m8, theres nothing you can do, this service will be downgraded, not because of you downloading because of the other people who have abused the service, and anyway all this came about cause some bloke was pissed in a pub, dont go overboard wait and see, this service was going to be completely abused from the start, any uncapped product will be.
if there not going to tell anyone and its not in there t+c then its illegal and they cant do it.


plus i dont know what your worried about itll still be uncapped and you still dl what ye want when ye want

shin

spongebob

he is absolutely right, for each bundle of 48 users in a contended group, i suspect that throttling 4-6 will do the trick. That makes for 42 who will moan less....of which 42 4-6 do their moaning in here .......at least 2 of them on a continous basis.

why do I also suspect that they will not be unthrottled at the beginning of the next month

M

NITEMAN

My problem isn't even a cap.
A cap of 10 or 11 Gigs would be fine.
What pisses me off is the half speed.
Even tho we can get our downloads they will
now take twice as long or else we have to pay out more cash for a higher service and then what do you know that gets throttled as well.
You can't believe a word these companies say anymore.
You're right tho, maybe the guy was just talking bollox.
I feel like being evil, I must get his name and put it on here for the craic
When i wa researching the provider to go to i read a lot in here from poeple who seemed to know what they were talking about, saying that the contention would not be an issue at all.

Originally posted by shinzon
if there not going to tell anyone and its not in there t+c then its illegal and they cant do it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it's only a two month contract, then a new contract can specify whatever they want.

Originally posted by NITEMAN
We are not a big company. only getting started, so cost is very important to us. Also download speed is very important to us as we are under time pressure and cannot wait double the time for downloads.

*if* and it's a big *if* netsource were going to clamp down on heavy users, surely they would target heavy residential users and not companies or genuine businesses.
They would be stone mad otherwise.
Credit them with a little sense, it's warez monkeys and not businesses that they *might* target, if it was everybody, they'd end up in stubbs Gazette.
therefore, I wouldn't be too worried and stick with them , if it's the cheapest option for you, and as you aren't worried about pings.
mm

NITEMAN

yeah i guess maybe i'm just pissed off because of the smugness of the Guy ( he was like, ha ha i'm going to f**k the customers and they don't know about it).
Also i'm sitting in the office trying to download something i need to have done for the morning.
I can't go home til its sorted.
Just me being in a bad mood i guess.

reyner

Could any of Netsource customers here tell me what download speed are you getting for the file www.netsource.ie/bigfile.zip

When I started to use the service it was 53 kb/sec and now is just 17 kb/sec. If somebody has the same f... speed please do tell me. Thanks in advance.

flamegrill

Originally posted by Man
Correct me if I am wrong, but if it's only a two month contract, then a new contract can specify whatever they want.

Its a too month rolling contract. For them to change the contract after 2 months you would have to re-sign the ammended one. You don't have to, if you live in dublin get some other form of unlimited broadband from Esat or a business product from Netsource. At the end of the day, RADSL is a residential product and with that comes "less than business like performance".

My 2c,

Paul

flamegrill

Originally posted by reyner
Could any of Netsource customers here tell me what download speed are you getting for the file www.netsource.ie/bigfile.zip

When I started to use the service it was 53 kb/sec and now is just 17 kb/sec. If somebody has the same f... speed please do tell me. Thanks in advance.

(3.59 MB/s) - `bigfile.zip'

I'm not a customer though ... (yet and thats not from dsl either ... or any other commercial product)

Paul

Mixie

Originally posted by reyner
Could any of Netsource customers here tell me what download speed are you getting for the file www.netsource.ie/bigfile.zip

When I started to use the service it was 53 kb/sec and now is just 17 kb/sec. If somebody has the same f... speed please do tell me. Thanks in advance.

2kB/sec. Went to 12kB after a minute or two, and back down to 3KB shortly thereafter where it seems content to stay.

MrPinK

Originally posted by reyner
Could any of Netsource customers here tell me what download speed are you getting for the file www.netsource.ie/bigfile.zip

When I started to use the service it was 53 kb/sec and now is just 17 kb/sec. If somebody has the same f... speed please do tell me. Thanks in advance.

51Kb/sec

MadsL

Bigfile.zip
about 10 KB/s...

totally unreliable speed measure btw as yous are now all accessing the same file...

I reckon we would download maybe 10GB a month on a heavy month and not less than 7GB ever.

Cool your jets NITEMAN...I would imagine *cough* that there are users downloading 10GBs a day, I wouldn't call you a heavy user.
Those greedy enough to want 300GB a month should be selectively throttled and if that doesn't work have their connection reduced to 56k.

If they are still over say 2GB a day after that then kneecap 'em and make 'em eat their router. :D:D

10GB a day isn't me btw - I reckon about 2GB a month based on the 278MB from the last 4 days. I just want good pings basically.

NITEMAN - you should be careful with this kind of 'good authority' 'friend of a friend' type accusation;

1. You could be sued.
2. If this is true then you just dropped your friends boyfriend in the ****, I doubt he'll buy you a pint next time.
3. You could have rung Netsource to confirm this and then posted here (ie: look before you post)

Memnoch

From what I was aware, RADSL meant that while most poeple will get 512k connection, some might not be able to get it because of distance from the exchange etc. But netsource forcibly cutting people down to 256k has got nothing to do with RADSL imo, thats just down right dirty because they want to be cheap and not pay for the bandwidth.

I mean the fact is if this is the product they are giving then they should specify that "HEAVY" users would be limited to 256k, now that doesn't sound the same as a normal uncapped RADSL to potential customers, I mean how many people would still sign up if there was a chance that netsource could just decide to throttle their connection?

This sounds like bull**** to me
I like netsource for many reasons, but if they start doing this kinda ****, then thats below the belt and unacceptable as far as i'm concerned.

Memnoch

Well if netsource have planned this, then they haven't admitted to this publicly so far.... so this could only mean that basically what they were planning to do is secretly throttle ppl and if someone complained they would just say, oh sorry this is radsl, there is nothing we can do about it, even though it would be them screwing their curstomers over underhandedly.
I hope to god that this isn't true..

NITEMAN

Reyner i'm getting 8KB/s for that file.
Pathetic

NITEMAN

You're right though.
I probably shouldn't have said anything, it might have just been him showing off(he seemed the type). i guess i was just in a bad mood because of that prick last night.
Not worried whether or not he buys me a pint anyway i hear he's about to be dumped.
I might even post his name if i can find out
Obviously though the providers seem to thin 4Gigs is a lot since thats the cap they give for a whole month.
We'll see what happens with download speeds during the week tho, but they do seem to be seriously down at the moment even downloading from microsoft.
Why have the Netsource people dissapeared from boards lately?
It doesn't make them look good at all.

MrPinK

The server that bigfile is on is artificially limiting d/l speeds. I can only get over 15Kb/s by downloading it with d/l accelerator.

Find a big file from microsoft.com for a proper test. They'll give it as fast as you can take it. Gotten speeds of over 1Mb/s from them in college.

bkehoe

Why would netsource limit the speed that the file can be downloaded at for their customers? I can get 108KB/sec downloading that file single thread on my eircom dsl, so its definatly not limited for non-netsource users.

kamobe

This saddens me. Are caps going to become standard from here on in? All it takes is a little investment (on Eircoms behalf, not netsource) to ensure a reliable service for everyone. They're not necessary everywhere else in the world, so why here?

And how would throttling the service help anybody who signed up for netsource? It's the most expensive DSL offering of it's kind, solely because it offers an uncapped service. Therefore everyone who signed up for it is a "warez monkey", to quote an earlier poster, and will be using (not ABusing as the NoLimit PR gits would have you believe) the service as much as they can. Throttling will just piss everyone off, not just one or two...

All in all it's a 2 month contract anyway, and if they do throttle it they'll loose their only major selling point and there'll be a mass migration of people to other providers.

POINT: It's not the people using the service who are at fault; it's the greedy suits who refuse to offer the bandwidth/infrastructure to support the users.

MrPinK

Originally posted by bkehoe
Why would netsource limit the speed that the file can be downloaded at for their customers? I can get 108KB/sec downloading that file single thread on my eircom dsl, so its definatly not limited for non-netsource users.

Sustainable at 108KB/sec? Single threaded, it maxs at over 100KB/s but steadies out at 15KB/s for me

Memnoch

u hit the nail on the head Kamobe, the fact of the matter is that people are paying extra for an UNCAPPED service, hell thats why most ppl who signed up with netsource did so. "throttling" heavy users is just a very cleaver way of imposing a cap isn't it? Moreover its dirty and underhanded especially if they do it secretly... I don't think i'd like to stay with a company that would secretly screw over its consumers at will for its own greed ( i.e. not wanting to fork over the cash for decent bandwidth especially when we are paying for than others). Who knows what a company with such ethics would do next ?

This is the kind of stuff we expect from eircom etc, and i was hoping netsource would have been above this....

can we not get a honest/decent service in this country!!!

NITEMAN

First post in this thread edited. The whole story was bull**** it seems.

carbsy

Was just gonna post my 3rd hand info rant , but I'll hold back now!

carb.

p.s. Found it quite amusing , as all the doubting tomas's jumped on board in a flash. :rolleyes:

Memnoch

lol @ carb
Niteman - tbh its understandable, if I had heard this from someone who was supposedly a netsource employ my first reaction would probably be exactly what yours is... lets hope it was just a rumor and that it ends there

shinzon

what listening to guys whose pissed in pubs can do, false rumours, dragging netsources name through the mud, i think facts and facts only should be reported, not just rumours

Netsource couldnt throttle users without telling there customers as i said before it would be illegal.

Sorry niteman but i knew this wouldnt happen thats why i got onto ye last night

regards

Shin

flav0rflav

I thought all discussion on the internet was rumour, conjecture and theory?

bkehoe

Originally posted by MrPinK
Sustainable at 108KB/sec? Single threaded, it maxs at over 100KB/s but steadies out at 15KB/s for me

Just got it again to be sure; solid 109KB/sec there now, so unless they're for some reason limiting speeds to netsource ip ranges, the server isnt an issue.

MrB

Lads,
"I heard it form a guy down the pub" is a cliché for a reason!

Anima

Fidel i think yours is good because no one in Galway knows about netsource and theres only a few on it.

Altheus

Just to throw in my 2 cents....

So what if I'm a warez monkey who spends his days on IRC gettin the latest movie releases, why should I have my speed brought down, when in reality it was one of the main reasons for getting the product, and equally what if I'm not a warez monkey, but a graphic designer/new media, who spends his days sending on large QT movies, or just a big streaming media fan watching telly...

If something is no download limit, it should be no download limit. The contention ratio is 48:1 so if there's two warez monkeys, tough ****, just beat 'em at there own game and see how long they'll stay on the line.

I really cant see the point in gettin DSL if I cant take advantage of faster and larger downloads.

Companies like netsource should be able to make sure that they handle what they're getting themselves in for with DSL, instead of changing policies everytime something goes wrong.

m1ke

Fidel, some people actually use their netsource connection for work, providing food for their children, money for them to go for pints etc... so stop being so patronising about it.

As for the economy, yes it's capitalist but.... the telecoms market isnt liberalised properly, its communist in a way.

Dustaz

Originally posted by m1ke
Fidel, some people actually use their netsource connection for work, providing food for their children, money for them to go for pints etc... so stop being so patronising about it.

Maybe some people should consider a genuine business solution instead of a residential one?

El_MUERkO

Well its advertized as SOHO which i thought meant Small Office Home Office.

MrPinK

Netsource we saying from the offset that they are a buisness ISP and weren't aiming at residential users

m1ke

"Maybe some people should consider a genuine business solution instead of a residential one?"

Well if this isn't a genuine business solution what with being Home Office / Small Office, static ip address with domain name bundle then what the **** is? And if you have an example of this genuine solution, then please share it with us unenlightened folk.

Dustaz

a 24:1 ADSL solution provided by a company that owns more bandwith than netsource appear to own?

Seriously though, Apologies for the offhand remark.

Sorry for being short, but reading the first page of this thread in which the words "bloke" and "pub" made numerous appearances annoyed me greatly.

Jorinn

Ok, let's go through a few things.

Firstly the pings:
Netsource is a business ISP, it's not aimed at gamers, eircom etc. have low pings, so use their service. Also I'm pinging over 150 to many irish sites from work on our leased line. So stop your moanin. I don't know of any business that requires extremely low pings to jolt or similar, it's unrealistic, netsource should really only be concentrating on download speed and reliabilty because of their target market.

Next, Download speed:
For all you kazaa users out there on netsource, when you download of someone it's completely unrealistic to expect 55k a sec down from them, since most of the world is on dial-up you shouldn't really expect any more than about 8k a sec MAX. Even other on DSL you'll get about 14k a sec max, 12k more realistically. As for other servers such as heanet, yes I do find it odd I can't get over 20k a sec per download off it, but I can get40k of it if I have two downloads going, i.e. the point is they have a capping or something on their server per user.

Thirdly:
I seriously doubt they can throttle you, it wasn't in the terms and conditions, also I never signed anything agreeing to them, just the order form which had no mentions of the terms if I recall, it would be very contentious to throttle it and I don't believe they could implement it entirely legally.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Jorinn
Firstly the pings:
Netsource is a business ISP, it's not aimed at gamers, eircom etc. have low pings, so use their service. Also I'm pinging over 150 to many irish sites from work on our leased line.

Oh please. Netsource SAY they are a business isp, but the RADSL offer that they buy wholesale from eircom is aimed squarely at residential users. There is already an uncapped Business solution from the two main ISPs and these are both at the far more reliable 24:1 ratio and running on ADSL.

Whatever Netsource say, this product is far more likely to be taken by residential users than business users....imo

Also, reasearch your ping facts before you make comparisions.

Next, Download speed:
For all you kazaa users out there on netsource, when you download of someone it's completely unrealistic to expect 55k a sec down from them, since most of the world is on dial-up you shouldn't really expect any more than about 8k a sec MAX. Even other on DSL you'll get about 14k a sec max, 12k more realistically.

Umm, im not sure what planet your living on but most of the kazaa using world is now on DSL or better. Most of the stuff i download from kazaa comes in at 30k+ Sure, theres always a few downloads that you get 1.2k but if you search a bit more you can always find better sources.

Altheus

Umm, on an Eircom DSL (the highest package) at 1MBit unlimited download, I've been maxing out the connection with no apparent slowdown. Be it from Kazaa, American game sites. Granted the ping is always around 200, but I dont care, it's a business line...

It'd be a strange state of affairs if eircom were putting out a better service than netsource...

LumoColor

Originally posted by Dustaz
Umm, im not sure what planet your living on but most of the kazaa using world is now on DSL or better. Most of the stuff i download from kazaa comes in at 30k+ Sure, theres always a few downloads that you get 1.2k but if you search a bit more you can always find better sources.

Its dependant on the upload speed of the person (or person's where multiple ppl are sharing the same file) you are d/loading from.

You have a 512/128, Say a single person has 512/128 the max rate will be about 8k/sec. But if they have 2mb/2mb (like most ppl in the DSL developed world) you are limited by your download connection about 50k ish (or 5-10k if your sharing your 48:1 contention ratio with a ton of other warez monkeh's).

MrPinK

Originally posted by Dustaz
Oh please. Netsource SAY they are a business isp, but the RADSL offer that they buy wholesale from eircom is aimed squarely at residential users.

It's not for big businesses alright, but 512k/128K is plenty for Small Office or Home Office businesses, hence the package title. Not all businesses have a lot of traffic but many do business via e-mail so they need a constant connection. No point in paying a lot more for better contention in that case.

po0k

Originally posted by [-=RaVeN=-]
Fidel i think yours is good because no one in Galway knows about netsource and theres only a few on it.

It's shi in galway too.
Mate is getting d/l rates of 20-30K/s, pings of 120ms.

Also, people, RADSL doens't mean that your d/l rate drops, it squeezes the upload to provide more frequency bandwidth for the downstream. And it drops at 32Kbit increments.
if ye knew what ye're at ye'd check your router's stats and find out. Also, with better routers you should be able to check the SNR ratio (signal to noise).
If people are paying for an uncapped connection to the internet with an advertised speed of 512/128 (subject to drop due to distance from the exchange/line conditions) they should get it. I wouldn't mind paying ~€70 ex vat per month for the same features as the current netsource Soho product, if the conenction performance characteristics were more like Esats (dl rates of 40KB/sec+, pings of ~40ms or less) with out a cap*.
Christ, if Esat didn't have a cap* and let residental users get it I'd order it tomorrow.

* or at elast a cap of ~20Gig per week

spongebob

Originally posted by SyxPak
Christ, if Esat didn't have a cap and let residental users get it I'd order it tomorrow.

The €109 (incl VAT) Business 512/128 ADSL from ESAT has No Cap.

They will install for non business users with a bit of persuasion, you are still setting up the business after all

It has the 20-30Ms pings to UK servers that suits the Gamers

You'll have to cross the Corrib Though because it is on the Mervue Exchange or the Eglinton St Exchange and not Shantalla .

See

http://www.adslnow.ie/county.php?id=galway

eg
09177
09178
09156

not
09158
09152
09159

M

po0k

Bloody knocknacarra again, filling up the excahnge.
I'm living in Greenfields (and will be for some time yet), so that's out for me
We're going to order netsource today as it's only a 2 month contract, so they've got 2 months to improve the service or we move.