Friend got caught with drugs

LegacyUser

Hrm, I'm not sure why I'm posting this, I suppose I'm looking for some insight into the judicial system with respect to drug trafficking and dealing.

Anyway, in a nutshell, a friend of mine (and before any wannabe Sigmund Freud starts - no, it is *not* me) got caught with about an ounce of hash on his person. He was taken to the Garda station and interrogated for a few hours. After he got released, he was informed that he was charged with drug dealing, and will have to attend court where he will obviously be tried. He was informed by the gardai that - if convicted - he could spend up to 6 months in prison.

Now, he was given the opportunity to avoid a jail term if he would act as a 'grass' (no pun intended) and provide information about people who supply hash around the area. He has made it clear that he is not willing to do this, and will serve time if necessary.

I know this sounds harsh, but I don't have that much sympathy for him personally. Drugs are illegal, even 'soft' drugs like hash. There were risks involved and he paid the price. What I would like to know is :- what is the probability that he will have to serve time for this kind of offence? (bear in mind that he has never been caught for anything like this before). Are the guards simply trying to scare information about him?

Evil Phil

Your mate needs to get a good criminal soliciter (spl?), the soliciter can answer these questions for him. As for dealing well, if he said something like "It was just for me and a few of my friends, Garda" then he's admitted possesion with intent to supply. Hopefully he kept shtum when in custody. If the ounce was cut up into smaller pieces then he'll get done for possesion with intent to supply too. Its up to the courts and his legal representation at the end of the day though.

tman

if it's a first time offence he *should* get off scot free, maybe a fine, slap on the wrist.
an ounce is sweet fa, a half could be passed off as personal.
it all depends on the judge he gets tbh, there's no surefire way of telling if he's gonna get off or get the book thrown at him.

my guess would be that the fuzzy muff are trying to scare him

Borzoi

Assuming he's young and without previous (conviction), the most likely thing to happen is nothing. But you can't count on that....

If it ever made it to court, provided he didn't admit anything to the gaurds, the likelihood is he'll get a fine.

Chances are parental punishment will be more severe.

But the court thing can drag on and on.....

Note, am not a lawyer, but I've seen similar situations in the past

Gordon

Better off in humanities methinks.

mooman_00

maybe if he tries to prove its for personal use(for himself and friends)........which may be tough since its an ounce

Clintons Cat

Well if your friend is willing to do 6 months for some bull**** "code of the street" then its his decision.Sounds like a ****ing chump to me.

Anything over an eighth of an ounce is usually treated as possession with intent to supply.

Shinji

Well if your friend is willing to do 6 months for some bull**** "code of the street" then its his decision.Sounds like a ****ing chump to me.

Er, maybe so - but I can tell you for certain that if I was caught with soft drugs, there's no way in hell I'd shop the people I get them off in order to save my own backside. Admittedly in my case I get them via friends rather than from a random dealer chappie, which is a different kettle of fish I suppose...

WhiteWashMan

drugs are bad, mmmmm'kay......

Typedef

Originally posted by random user #13
Now, he was given the opportunity to avoid a jail term if he would act as a 'grass' (no pun intended) and provide information about people who supply hash around the area. He has made it clear that he is not willing to do this, and will serve time if necessary.

Has anybody mentioned the term gang rape to him?

This happens all the time in Irish prisons.

Clintons Cat

Well Shinji,with all due respect it is not you facing a six month stretch with all the implications that will hold for future employment and credit rating ect.

O.P get your friend to speak long and hard with a solicitor about the implications of "helping police with their enquiries",and the length of sentence he faces, before he makes any decision that will have major consequences on his life. He needs to get it sorted quickly before his court appearance.A solicitor should also be able to inform him of the type of information the police would require,should he change his mind otm.Make sure he is accompanied by a solicitor at any meeting and that he is aware that his co operation is voluntary and that he does not have to answer any questions that might incriminate himself.

But at the end of the day he would rather do six months then its up to him...Respect and all that cockney bollox

I have known people who i at the time considered friends who have made all the noises,slagged off grasses and flick the V's at authority,who when the crunch came have in their statement that i have seen,sold out their mates,contacts and fences,then barefaced after they got off with a two year stretch for burgalry commuted to 8 weeks community service sit in front of me and accuse someone they fingered as being a grass...go figure.

Jimi-Spandex

Well, depends on alot of things.

Previous Criminal record, if any.
Age
What he's doing with himself(workin, student, unemployed) - It'll be harder to coinvince the Gardaí that it was for personal use if he's unemployed.)
Whether or not he was co-operative.



Get a good solicitor, any criminal record can and will f*ck you in later life, i assume he is in his late teens-early twenties? Getting a job and leaving the country can be made incredibly difficult with a drugs charge on his record. Still can't over emphasise need for a good solicitor, you never know his right to due process my have been violated, then bada bing, scott free. I can't tell from your story whether or not this is the case though.

As for the difference between possession and possession with intent to supply, obviously possession with intent is far more serious but judging by what the police said, he is more likely to be charged with possession.

Best of luck to him I suppose.

swiss

The original poster was me. I wanted to maintain the persons anonymity, but since nobody here knows him, fuck it.

To answer a few questions, he's in his early twenties, and has never before been in trouble with the law. He's in full time employment at the moment. The drugs were for personal use, himself and a few friends of his were going to smoke it over a period of time. He's never dealt drugs and has assured me that after this incident will never touch them again (too little too late I suppose).

I suppose the most 'negative' aspect that this will have will be, as Jimi-Spandex said, will be the effect a criminal record will have on his future job and travel prospects. I feel sorry for him in this respect, one relatively small incident like this will mark him for the rest of his life with criminals and thieves.

I don't know if he's spoken to a solicitor yet about his possibilities, I know I would if it were me. I very much doubt he's going to serve any time for this, we have a hard enough time putting away violent criminals for any length of time, never mind people carrying around an ounce of hash for their own personal use.

I also suppose theres a chance he'll get away scot free thanks to our fscked up legal system.

Jimi-Spandex

He should already have a solicitior. He should never have been questioned without one. In the end this will probably give his solicitor something to work with though.

I wouldn't quite say our legal system is ****ed up. Most of the time people getting away on technicalities are the result of f*ck ups on the part of the Gardai in not giving detanees the right to due process, could be anything from an illegal search to preventing access to a solicitor while in custody. Although probably not an illegal search in this case due to drug trafficking act 96.

Whether or not he should be punished is another matter, more of a philosophical one. Should you obey a rule because its a rule or because of the moral concerns behind the rule? A question which deserves another topic entirely.

Emboss

An ounce is a very grey area in the courts it really boils down to who he gets on the day and if said judge got laid the night before, if your "friend" has a job it can make a HUGE difference his age, his previous (if any) will come into it a solicitor will go down well too (shows he cares) my prediction is a very big fine possible comunity service at worst a suspended 6 month anal bashing. how the hell did he get caught anyway ??

magick

personally i think their trying to scare him, but if they dont get the info they want they will push it though the courts

bonkey

Originally posted by swiss
He's never dealt drugs and has assured me that after this incident will never touch them again (too little too late I suppose).

One would wonder at his admacance to remain silent on where he got it from then...unless he's protecting some mates.

I feel sorry for him in this respect, one relatively small incident like this will mark him for the rest of his life with criminals and thieves.

I dont (and wouldnt if I knew him) for the same reason that I generally have no sympathy for people involved in casual sex who get pregnant.

If you get into something without knowing and understanding the risks, you deserve what you get. Once you know and understand the risks, and still choose to get into something...you definitely deserve what you get.

I don't know if he's spoken to a solicitor yet about his possibilities, I know I would if it were me.

As soon as the police mentioned charging him, he should have insisted on having one present.

I also suppose theres a chance he'll get away scot free thanks to our fscked up legal system.

Yup....but even then he'd want to hope that the cops in his locality dont decide to have it in for him because he wouldnt shop his dealer/supplier. You know....making sure that he is nabbed for every slight infraction of laws at every possible turn....Ive seen in happen.

jc

jc

Tusky

Well if your friend is willing to do 6 months for some bull**** "code of the street" then its his decision.Sounds like a ****ing chump to me.

dont be stoooopid - if everyone that got caught told who they got it from things would be a bit **** wouldnt they ? yes, yes they would

KdjaCL

Hope he doesnt like going on holidays to 1st world countires because he is never getting a Visa to the US or Australia or anywhere where a visa is required.

Sadly his life is ruined if he is found guilty even if not he still has a charge for drug dealing regardless of whether he gets locked up or not he will find his life severley restricted because of this.

1 Q how was he caught?
Police dont really do random drug searches.

kdjac

vibe666

First off, get him to get a decent solicitor.

The ones they give you in the station are always new to the game and are generally crap, and he could well end up inside simply because his brief isn't smart enough to say the right stuff at the right time (does this sound like the voice of experience to you?:D).

As for 6 months inside, almost no chance of this actually happening. Whenever police tell you what you are going to get they will always scaremonger you into giving them what they want (i.e. information about others), but they are still restricted to telling you what you 'could' get rather than making it up.

They can't for instance tell him he's going to get 20 years for dealing for an oz of hash, because it would be an outright lie. They can however tell him what the law has the power to do, and the maximum sentence for possesion of that amount of a class B drug would be 6 months. They almost never do this however apart from in extreme cases.

If he had a single block of 1oz of hash, then they can't really prove he was going to sell it and he will be able to say it was for personal use, and will most likely get away with it. They ddn't catch him trying to sell it, and he's not a known dealer, so he should be fine.

A decent solicitor should be able to get it down to nothing more than a slapped wrist, probably.

Get him to see a decent brief and see what they say.

KdjaCL

Noone really knows if he is a known dealer or if this was his 1st time.
If the police have been aware of him (hence me asking how he was caught).
They could well try and ensure he gets a jail term.

kdjac

neohoki

i just wanna say the law is if you have more than half an ounce in you posession its considered dealing....(i don't know why it's just the law)

swiss

As far as I know he was caught because the police had kept his supplier under surveillance for a period of time - I'm not sure how long. From what I understand, they want to catch the supplier of this supplier rather than pursue this guy for his own sake. The reason why he's reluctant to share information about these people is I suspect either because he doesn't know enough to be of use to the Gardai or (more likely) he's also friends with the dealer in question.

fisty

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Serves him right in my opinion.

Selik

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
Well if your friend is willing to do 6 months for some bull**** "code of the street" then its his decision.Sounds like a ****ing chump to me.

Anything over an eighth of an ounce is usually treated as possession with intent to supply.

Ha! That's the biggest load of arse I've ever heard in my entire life! Do you actually know how little smoke an 1/8th is?

Gordon

Giles in fairness, although I'm not sure of the law in UK - CC is in England and their laws may be stricter than Irish laws concerning posession etc.

It doesn't matter what we may think is an adequate quantity for personal use - the law decides that. By the way - what is the amount of personal use/supply use in Ireland/UK? /edit - half an ounce says nehoki. This correct?

Typedef

Originally posted by swiss
he's also friends with the dealer in question.

Yeah and I wonder would the dealer do time for him?

What a pile of ****é swiss, if your mate really was just a casual smoker and not some gangster type, he'll be chewed up in prison.

Guys go in there for minor offences and come out with herion addictions and STDs. I'm sure he's watched enough television to think he's a right hard ass, but, in reality Mount Joy is the last place he wants to be.

Unless he's quite big, or attached to a criminal or Republican group, he'll probably get raped.

I don't know if your friend is actually aware of that, or if he actually thinks that he will be able to take on a group of murders, thieves, aggrivated assaulters, armed robbers and not get turned into their personal fuk toy, or get hooked/forced into heroin addiction.

A habit, the prison guards allow to happen, so as to keep the prisoners docile.

swiss

Yeah and I wonder would the dealer do time for him?

I honestly don't know the chap well enough to comment (the dealer that is), I assume that would depend on his character and his loyalty to his mate.

I very much doubt a casual smoker is going to do any time for posession of an ounce of hash, even if he's unco-operative with police enquiries. In the unlikely event that he does get a sentence, it is almost certain that it would be suspended. In a legal system that fails to jail violent criminals, it would seem ludicrous to exact a harsher punishment on a small time smoker.

Prison is doubtlessly an ugly place, and based on what you've told me I'd like to find out more about the living conditions of the prisoners (not through first hand experience though thank you) - but I think we have to keep perspective. I think he's got an appointment with a solicitor, and I guess its up to fate (and the authorities) to decide what happens to him.

Clintons Cat

put my curtness down to a bad thursday,well to be honest its been a pretty **** couple of months,i just get hacked off with people who make out like jail is no big thing,one aquaintence had taken to jacking up speed during his time in ,which is a really ****ed up thing to do turned him into a ****ing pathetic wreck.

Dont know what the current UK druglaws are and bearing in mind the ambiguous nature of the lambeth experiment with conflicting statements coming from both Home Minister and Chief Constable niether do the authorities.However lets presume the following is applicable to both Ireland and the UK based upon educated guesswork and the predicament your friend finds himself in.

i would say that bearing in mind the additional details provided by Swiss that any information his mate could provide about the dealer would be redundant as they already have enough information on him to enact a warrent given that they have him already under survaillence and arrested people leaving his premises with drugs about their person.

Since they would of been likely to present this information to him had they got it to strengthen their position (and laws of prior disclosure means they cannot spring any nasty suprises on the court day)it seems unlikely that they have not logged any previous visits your mate has made to the dealer in question,this is a good thing as it strengthens you mates case for it being for personal use.However if he has already said it was for him and his friends then hes already admitted intent to supply,(monetary gain is immaterial).

Hope he gets himself a Good solicitor who will be able to give him better consol than anything we are likely to be able to provide here.

Right to answer your original question~

Yes the guards are trying to scare him,but the courts do take into account mitigating circumstances like co-operation when determining length of sentence.

Catsmokinpot

Ok this is too wierd i have to know this person as i have a friend who is in the exact same situation not too sure weather this is the same person but ill give you the full story:

(not going to name any names)

3 of my friends got some dope off some dealer in waterford and called me down to have a smoke i was walked down to the house and met my two buds who said my other bud who was holdin on to the ounce was down at the shop getting munchies.

it took quite a while and we got worried. so, we went and looked for him, as we walked out the door we split in to two groups and went down both directions of the street when we got to the end of the street we were met by a garda in plainclothes at both ends who led us to an unmarked car and led us off to the garda station on the way they told me they had my friend in custody and were questioning him (my guess is they clocked my friends when they were getting the gear from the dealer)

and strip searched us (no rubber gloves) but made us take off our pants and do a jig and then we were let go they thought my friend was a dealer because he had an ounce on him, thank god it was in one piece because they will definitely think youre dealing if its split, we told them he wasnt a dealer when we were being questioned and we think they copped he wasnt when he spent an 4 hours in a cell and came out ****ting himself

they also got a warrant and searched my friends house [and he got a beating for himself and kicked out of the house because they told his landlord (which is standard procedure)]

they said he would get a summons in six months and gave him a number incase he wanted to dob someone in, and let us go scott free.

(dont want to get in to any arguements with people who dont want it legalised because they go on for ever and then the thread gets locked)

but heres my opinion on the situation, i have sympathy for him because i think its a bad law and should be abolished but after all it is the law and we knew the risks involved so its our own fault an ofcourse i will help pay the fine(if their is one)

now i dont think he will go down for it because i have spoken to several people who have said they got off scott free with around the same amount in hash

moral of the story dont get caught be like the ninja :ninja:

Edit: he doesnt want to dob anyone in because drug dealers are powerfull and nasty i personally would rather go to jail than dob
a drug dealer in you'd be skint alive

oh it turns out it was the same person lol

growler

like anything else in our little country it's worth trying to get the family's guard / priest etc to have a quiet word if possible , usually someone knows someone. If he's working , no record etc then the chances are very very high that he'll get off.

the pain in the @ss is, as was pointed out , they'll know his face around town from now on.


btw, the usual line from the friendly gardai regarding solicitor at questioning is , you can answer a few questions now or spend the next 5 hours in the cells next door (pointing to scary drunks) while we try and find you one, whats it to be ?
works quite well !

vibe666

Always keep a solicitors card in your wallet, if you never need it then it wasn't doing oyu any harm having it there, but if you do it can be a lifesaver.

Tiesto

Originally posted by random user #13

Now, he was given the opportunity to avoid a jail term if he would act as a 'grass' (no pun intended) and provide information about people who supply hash around the area.

thats now allowed is it?

A friend of mine was caught with a certain amount of hash.They kept phoning him and saying if he doesnt not give them information about dealers then they will charge him with what he was found with.It went on for about a month and he would not give the information.

I cant remember how exactly it ended. I think he got in contact with a solicitor and what the Gardai were doing was not allowed and he got off.

Evil Phil

Originally posted by swiss
The drugs were for personal use, himself and a few friends of his were going to smoke it over a period of time.

If he tells the gaurds or the courts that it was for him and his friends then he has admitted supplying drugs to others, thats intent to supply, a big no-no. A friend* of mine got a suspended sentence and a big fine for saying that.

Another friend* admitted personal, went into rehab doing regular urine tests and when his case finally came up he got community service and no criminal record.

*Neither are me