#1

Hi Folks,

Old boardsy member returning for a question regarding the definition of a self-contained unit for purposes of renting under the rent a room scheme.

I'm looking at undertaking a big renovation on my home, this involved extending to the front and the rear of my home. I have plans I could upload but as I've less than 5 posts I can't.

The extension to the front will be a new entrance point and it will extended the living space in my current converted garage. Once inside there will be 2 internal doors, one door leading what is my current hallway the other leading to what is the current converted garage. PP will be required for the work to be undertaken.

The extension to the rear will have 2 proposes, 1st to extend my current kitchen/dining room area and then 2nd to create a new downstairs bathroom and a new separate bedroom.

Access to the new downstairs bedroom and the downstairs bathroom will be from the current converted garage. I plan to put a kitchenette in what is the current converted garage.

I envision that at some point in the future the new bedroom/bathroom and kitchenette would be used by elderly parents, but for the moment they are very mobile and independent so it may be a few years off.

In the mean time I was planning on renting the new downstairs bedroom under the rent a room scheme, giving the licensee exclusive access to the new downstairs bedroom and the new downstairs bathroom, the kitchenette would be shared by all but the reality is I'd have very little need to use it if at all.

It's my opinion the above setup doesn't constitute a self-contained unit as the kitchenette/bathroom/bedroom section of the houses is entered via an internal doorway.

However there is little documentation available on what defines self-contained unit under the eyes of the RTB. I know the setup is revenue compliant for the rent a room scheme, however I do not wish to have to register a tenancy and all that comes with that scenario but would prefer a licensee situation.

I'm wondering if the good folks for boards would have any experience in the matter and if there is a definitive explanation of what is considered to be a self-contained unit in the eyes of the RTB

kceire Moderator
#2

What you describe is a Granny Flat or Ancillary Family Accomodation as it is known in the development Plan.
You need Planning as you mention but the problem is that it will be conditioned that the granny flat cannot be separated by lease or let.

2 people have thanked this post
Fian Registered User
#3

You would be entitled to rent a room relief as this is not seperate accomodation - it is part of the same house since there are shared areas and all areas can be accessed internally.

You should NOT describe to the renter that they have exclusive posession of any part - they will be a licencee rather than a tenant, which means you can ask them to leave if you are unhappy with teh way they behave in your home. If they have exclusive posession they may acquire a tenance which will not be good news from your perspective should you not get on. You should simply tell them they have access to parts of your home.

3 people have thanked this post
4ensic15 Registered User
#4

Fian said:
You would be entitled to rent a room relief as this is not seperate accomodation - it is part of the same house since there are shared areas and all areas can be accessed internally.

You should NOT describe to the renter that they have exclusive posession of any part - they will be a licencee rather than a tenant, which means you can ask them to leave if you are unhappy with teh way they behave in your home. If they have exclusive posession they may acquire a tenance which will not be good news from your perspective should you not get on. You should simply tell them they have access to parts of your home.


No matter what description is applied to it, the RTB will look at the reality of the situation. A kitchenette will make it a separate dwelling,m which is what it is intended to be. It will have to be registered with the RTB and the o/p will have to give the tenants a Section 25 notice

nox001 Registered User
#5

4ensic15 said:
No matter what description is applied to it, the RTB will look at the reality of the situation. A kitchenette will make it a separate dwelling,m which is what it is intended to be. It will have to be registered with the RTB and the o/p will have to give the tenants a Section 25 notice


They cannot enter without entering the main dwelling and they don't have exclusive use. No way can it be considered a tenancy. They are renting a room and have use of a kitchen which may or may not be used by anyone else in the house also.

For example if the op changes the lock on the front door of his house then the licensee cannot enter his his bedroom, the licensee has no grounds to complain about this lock being changed as its the ops dwelling and therefore the situation is not compatible with being a tenancy.

1 person has thanked this post
Gileadi Registered User
#6

Leave an internal doorway between new area and your area? Just permanently keep it locked.

I suspect that would make planning permission more straightforward and also help the potential for RTB to consider a rental arrangement as a tenancy.

4ensic15 Registered User
#7

nox001 said:
They cannot enter without entering the main dwelling and they don't have exclusive use. No way can it be considered a tenancy. They are renting a room and have use of a kitchen which may or may not be used by anyone else in the house also.

For example if the op changes the lock on the front door of his house then the licensee cannot enter his his bedroom, the licensee has no grounds to complain about this lock being changed as its the ops dwelling and therefore the situation is not compatible with being a tenancy.


From the o/p's description the tenants will have their own entrance. If the RTB rule as they well might, the o/p will be stuck with a tenancy. If he hasn't given a Section 25 notice and registered he could be in serious ****. Once there is a separate kitchen and appliances it is very difficult to argue that there is one household in the building.

kceire Moderator
#8

Gileadi said:
Leave an internal doorway between new area and your area? Just permanently keep it locked.

I suspect that would make planning permission more straightforward and also help the potential for RTB to consider a rental arrangement as a tenancy.


The internal doorway would be a condition of the planning anyway. Same the condition that it cannot be rented out.

davindub Registered User
#9

Op if you intend to avail of the rent a room relief, the planning permission granted and RTB status wont matter, revenue have their own rules.

Self contained units that forms part of the residence can qualify, but if adjacent to the residence, it doesnt.

There are no set criteria beyond the above, but what you describe does seem to be part of the residence.

1 person has thanked this post
davindub Registered User
#10

kceire said:
Gileadi said:
Leave an internal doorway between new area and your area? Just permanently keep it locked.

I suspect that would make planning permission more straightforward and also help the potential for RTB to consider a rental arrangement as a tenancy.


The internal doorway would be a condition of the planning anyway. Same the condition that it cannot be rented out.


I havent seen the new granny flat initative (briefly heard about it in the news), but I wonder how planning permission will work for these units, what are the cant rent out conditions currently being applied worded like?

kceire Moderator
#11

davindub said:
I havent seen the new granny flat initative (briefly heard about it in the news), but I wonder how planning permission will work for these units, what are the cant rent out conditions currently being applied worded like?


Here’s my most recent grant of permission


3. The ancillary family accommodation hereby approved shall be incidental to the enjoyment of the principal dwelling on site. It shall not be separated from the principal dwelling by lease or sale. Once the accommodation is no longer required for ancillary accommodation purposes, it shall revert back to being part of the original family house. Reason: In the interests of the proper planning and development of the area.


Possibly argue that there’s no lease?
But as part of the official application you have to explain why and who you need the ancillary accommodation for.

1 person has thanked this post
Gileadi Registered User
#12

kceire said:
The internal doorway would be a condition of the planning anyway. Same the condition that it cannot be rented out.


Can planning restrict from the rent a room scheme though?

As per your planning permission it would neither be a lease or sale

4ensic15 Registered User
#13

Gileadi said:
Can planning restrict from the rent a room scheme though?

As per your planning permission it would neither be a lease or sale


Rent a room is a tax relief concept. Planning permission is for a unit used by a member of the applicants family and it is not to be leased or let. It would be qualify for rent a room but be in breach of planning and also be necessary to register with the RTB. In this case the revenue will be easiest to satisfy. The council might turn a bling eye on planning but it is not guaranteed. If there is a complaint the RTB will get involved and take a view. What the o/p proposes herre is the letting of a self contained unit and it is odds on the RTB will find a lease.

Caranica Registered User
#14

davindub said:
I havent seen the new granny flat initative (briefly heard about it in the news), but I wonder how planning permission will work for these units, what are the cant rent out conditions currently being applied worded like?


That was only speculation. Wasn't included in budget in the end

myshirt Registered User
#15

You will not get rent a room relief.

Additionally you are looking at large up front costs. Unless you are in a very good area in Dublin, these ideas are rarely financially viable. Instead they are examples of the lack of financial education in the country, and the dangers of Google. I've heard so many people come up with these genius ideas down the pub that one face palm is no longer enough now. Two face palms are required.

Want to share your thoughts?

Login here to discuss!