caoi.mhe Registered User
#1

I was in popular Irish supermarket, Dunnes Stores, today in Cork City with a friend of mine who was buying alcohol. I never once handled the alcohol that she way buying anywhere in the store, except to maybe hold it for her for a brief second while she got her wallet, but we would have been nowhere near the till when this was done. However, when it came to paying for them, the store assistant asked for my friend's ID which is expected, we're both only 19, but she then also extremely rudely insisted that I show her mine too. I told her that I wasn't buying the alcohol and that I wasn't paying for it, my friend was, however she insisted that it was the law that I show her mine too.

Surely this isn't actually the law surrounding buying alcohol in Ireland, that they have to see the ID of every person present at the till when it's being purchased and she had no right to insist on seeing my ID as well my friend's ID? I wasn't purchasing the alcohol, I hadn't even touched it, yet she was insisting it was the law that I must show her my ID as well even thought I had nothing to do with the transaction.

If that is the case, then surely adults buying alcohol in the company of their own children shouldn't be allowed either, as none of their children have proof they are over eighteen?

I have a strong mind to go back into the store tomorrow and ask to speak to a manager about the whole ordeal. The staff member was very curt and in no way polite about it, but surely this isn't actually law?

Losty Dublin Registered User
#2

It is illegal to sell alcohol to under 18's and to sell to those who may supply it to under 18's. The shop was well within it's rights to ask you both for ID in this regard if they suspected that it may have been for you as well. You will find that some of the multiples sell drink to people over the age of 25 only. Some of them have tills set up to ask the staff at the till to confirm that they are old enough to purchase drink so you were lucky to have been sold drink on this instance.

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Lmklad Registered User
#3

Losty Dublin said:
It is illegal to sell alcohol to under 18's and to sell to those who may supply it to under 18's. The shop was well within it's rights to ask you both for ID in this regard if they suspected that it may have been for you as well. You will find that some of the multiples sell drink to people over the age of 25 only. Some of them have tills set up to ask the staff at the till to confirm that they are old enough to purchase drink so you were lucky to have been sold drink on this instance.



As above. The store have a legal duty of care to ensure that alcohol purchased isn’t to be supplied to minors. Perfectly reasonable to ask you for ID.

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L1011 Moderator
#4

These policies are always handled extremely poorly by staff and often even management. Aldi say they must check ID of everyone in a group "by law", cite Scottish law if you query this, and then never check kids with parents. The Scottish law in question doesn't even mention the concept as far as I remember!

TallGlass Registered User
#5

Always wondered about this. Surely if the alcohol is sold to you and you give it to someone else. The store is sure they have made there checks and all is above board.

If that is the case. Then they should be following people off there property and seeing where they are going with the alcohol.

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Peregrinus Registered User
#6

There's two issues here.

The first is that if two (or more) people present themselves at the checkout carrying goods and offering payment, the shop has no way of knowing whether this is a joint purchase that they are all involved in, or a purchase by just one of them, with the others having come along to watch because why not? The question isn't answered by the fact that the credit or debit card of just one person is offered; there may be an arrnagement or understanding whereby he is to be reimursed by the others, or he may already have been put in funds by them. He may, in short, be acting as the agent of the group in entering into the contract. If it's a group purchase, and any member of the group is under 18, the shop commits an offence in selling them alcohol.

The second is that it is an offence for an over-18 year old to buy alcohol to provide to an under-18 year old. And if the circumstances suggest that that is what is happening, the shop risks being an accessory to the offence, or at least risks objections to the renewal of their licence, if they don't make investigations to exclude that possibility.

Parents with their children aren't normally buying alcohol on behalf of their children, and there's no reason to think that they are buying alcohol to give it to their children. Whereas a group of young people all turning up and one of them who is over 18 is seeking to buy alcohol, both of these situations are obviously quite possible. Hence the shop will want to take steps to prevent either possibility. That's not unreasonable.

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seamus Dental Plan!
#7

L1011 said:
These policies are always handled extremely poorly by staff and often even management. Aldi say they must check ID of everyone in a group "by law", cite Scottish law if you query this, and then never check kids with parents. The Scottish law in question doesn't even mention the concept as far as I remember!

The holder of any licence shall not—

(a) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18 years,
This is pretty broad, and could potentially be interpreted as an obligation on the retailer to not sell to anyone whom they have good to reason believe will or may supply that alcohol to an under-18.

When it comes to applying that rule to someone on the checkout, the legal team and the insurers won't be happy leaving it to the employee's judgement and so instead put a blanket policy in place.

If a parent comes in with a ten year old you can be reasonably sure they're not buying alcohol for them. And even if they were, it's not an offence for a parent to supply alcohol to their child in their own home. So it's a grey area.

Most likely it's all overprotective insurance and legal teams. "If someone were to get really drunk and die because their mate bought alcohol in LIDL, the parents might try and sue for negligence. So rather than deal with that bad publicity, just card everyone standing near alcohol who looks like they might be young".

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TheShow Registered User
#8

She was being responsible and doing her job well. We need more people like this.

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caoi.mhe Registered User
#9

Losty Dublin said:
It is illegal to sell alcohol to under 18's and to sell to those who may supply it to under 18's. The shop was well within it's rights to ask you both for ID in this regard if they suspected that it may have been for you as well. You will find that some of the multiples sell drink to people over the age of 25 only. Some of them have tills set up to ask the staff at the till to confirm that they are old enough to purchase drink so you were lucky to have been sold drink on this instance.


I wasn't "lucky" to be sold drink, it wasn't mine in the first place anyway. There's also no law saying you're not allowed to buy alcohol unless you're over 25, the law is you have to be over 18, technically establishments have no right to refuse you if you're over 18.

I actually work in retail myself, not a supermarket/off licence however, but in an establishment that occasionally sells alcohol throughout the year. We have never once been told to ID all parties present when someone is buying alcohol. We have to ID anyone we suspect of being under 30, yes, but if they're over 18 we can sell it to them. If a parent walked in with their teenage child I wouldn't ever dream of asking both parties for ID. If an adult was going to buy alcohol for a minor, obviously it's bad morals, but besides that, the minor isn't going to accompany them to the checkout while trying to buy the alcohol in question.

caoi.mhe Registered User
#10

seamus said:
If a parent comes in with a ten year old you can be reasonably sure they're not buying alcohol for them. And even if they were, it's not an offence for a parent to supply alcohol to their child in their own home. So it's a grey area.


My mother has actually been refused buying alcohol before just because I was with her and didn't have any ID with me. Which is ridiculous, so they clearly only enforce half the rule whenever they feel necessary. If it was the law to have everyone present show their IDs they wouldn't be selling it to these adults with young children, regardless of their young age or not.

Peregrinus Registered User
#11

caoi.mhe said:
I wasn't "lucky" to be sold drink, it wasn't mine in the first place anyway. There's also no law saying you're not allowed to buy alcohol unless you're over 25, the law is you have to be over 18, technically establishments have no right to refuse you if you're over 18

They do. Although discrimination between adults on the grounds of age is generally unlawful, there is an exception in the legislation relating to alcohol sales and licensed premises. Businesses are free to set a minimum sales or admission age which is higher than 18, if they wish to.

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seamus Dental Plan!
#12

caoi.mhe said:
I wasn't "lucky" to be sold drink, it wasn't mine in the first place anyway. There's also no law saying you're not allowed to buy alcohol unless you're over 25, the law is you have to be over 18, technically establishments have no right to refuse you if you're over 18.
Actually they do.

There is nothing in the law which obliges the sale of alcohol to someone over 18. The retailer always reserves the right to not sell produce.

The equal status act requires that all adults are treated equally regardless of age, which by default means that a shop cannot sell to a 30 year old and refuse to sell to an 18 year old.

However an exemption was added in 2003, which allows licenced sellers of alcohol to implement an age policy for alcohol, provided that the policy is displayed prominently and is implemented in good faith (e.g. they don't just card travellers and leave everyone else alone).

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whippet Registered User
#13

caoi.mhe said:
the law is you have to be over 18, technically establishments have no right to refuse you if you're over 18.




if your argument is based upon this wrong assumption you are wasting your time here and with seeking out a manager to have a rant at.


Also .. you might want to get your story straight before confronting a manager


caoi.mhe said:
I never once handled the alcohol that she way buying anywhere in the store,


never once?

caoi.mhe said:
except to maybe hold it for her for a brief second while she got her wallet



but you never touched it?


caoi.mhe said:
I wasn't purchasing the alcohol, I hadn't even touched it, y



In all fairness .. the cashier is looking at two young people (possibly underage) walking with alcohol to the counter .. one hands the booze to the other - as they are getting their wallet out .. of course the cashier will want to check that both parties are of legal age to purchase the booze.

caoi.mhe Registered User
#14

whippet said:
if your argument is based upon this wrong assumption you are wasting your time here and with seeking out a manager to have a rant at.


Also .. you might want to get your story straight before confronting a manager


never once?




but you never touched it?





In all fairness .. the cashier is looking at two young people (possibly underage) walking with alcohol to the counter .. one hands the booze to the other - as they are getting their wallet out .. of course the cashier will want to check that both parties are of legal age to purchase the booze.


If you had quoted the correct part of the post you'd know that I said I might have handled it for a second while she got her wallet but I explicitly stated it wasn't anywhere near the till point. I had nothing to do with the transaction, I was merely standing near the checkout with my friend.

seamus Dental Plan!
#15

caoi.mhe said:
If you had quoted the correct part of the post you'd know that I said I might have handled it for a second while she got her wallet but I explicitly stated it wasn't anywhere near the till point. I had nothing to do with the transaction, I was merely standing near the checkout with my friend.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway.

The retailer is perfectly entitled to do this.

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