Cheerful Spring Registered User
#271

xckjoo said:
Why do you think the British police are under any obligation to prove anything to you? Their obligation is to the safety of the British public.



The British police version right now is Skipral and his daughter was poisoned between 12 noon and 1 pm at home.

The evidence right now though shows they left home at 9 am and never returned home.

The British police then released CTV of the men walking on a road near their home? If the claim is these men headed to the Skipral home, sprayed this stuff on the door and left.

How do you prove the Skipral and his daughter were indeed poisoned at home you release CTV of their car traveling home between 12am and 1pm that a very convincing case the Skiprals were poisoned at home.

The British police and media are overlooking that the Skiprals were spotted between 1 pm and 4 pm at pubs and restaurants perfectly fine and eating their supper. How long does it take for this nerve agent to kick in? Three hours is a long time for it to work, it just doesn't add up.

FTA69 Registered User
#272

Why are people doing mental backflips in order to avoid the idea that Putin and the Russian state did in one of their enemies? It's not like they don't have form for this at home and abroad like.

mcmoustache Registered User
#273

Cheerful Spring said:

That second report is false they were captured on video walking near the petrol station on the main road that was nearby to Skipral home. There no evidence of them entering the estate to Skipral home.



Are you telling me that there is nothing unusual about landing at the train station, going the opposite direction away from the town and being spotted 8 minutes from the Skripal home?

This is getting more ridiculous than your 911 thread.

mcmoustache Registered User
#274

FTA69 said:
Why are people doing mental backflips in order to avoid the idea that Putin and the Russian state did in one of their enemies? It's not like they don't have form for this at home and abroad like.


Because they start with the premise that it couldn't be Russia and work backwards from there. The problem with doing that is that those mental backflips are the only way to explain the mountain of evidence implicating Russia.

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Billy86 Registered User
#275

Not directly related but Dutch intelligence have detained two further spies trying to break into a Swiss lab - https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/09/russian-spies-detained-in-the-hague-were-planning-cyber-break-in-at-swiss-lab-nrc/

Mainly linking because I got a laugh that of all labs, he spies targeted the Spiez lab.

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Cheerful Spring Registered User
#276

mcmoustache said:
Are you telling me that there is nothing unusual about landing at the train station, going the opposite direction away from the town and being spotted 8 minutes from the Skripal home?

This is getting more ridiculous than your 911 thread.


What is ridiculous you have accepted this narrative even though we have no evidence the Skiprals returned home after leaving at 9 am in the morning and for some unknown reason, it took 3 hours for Novitchok to work. I don't believe the British police version of them touching the door sometime between 12 am and 1 pm. Their movements have been tracked from 1 pm to 4 pm

wexie Registered User
#277

Billy86 said:
Not directly related but Dutch intelligence have detained two further spies trying to break into a Swiss lab - https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/09/russian-spies-detained-in-the-hague-were-planning-cyber-break-in-at-swiss-lab-nrc/

Mainly linking because I got a laugh that of all labs, he spies targeted the Spiez lab.


They were just tourists!!!!


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Cheerful Spring Registered User
#278

mcmoustache said:
Because they start with the premise that it couldn't be Russia and work backwards from there. The problem with doing that is that those mental backflips are the only way to explain the mountain of evidence implicating Russia.


It based on evidence, that you don't seem to care about. The Skiprals its established fact not Russian propaganda were having meals at restaurants and pubs from 1.15pm to 4 pm. That it took nearly 3 hours for Novitchok to affect them is ludicrous. I love to know what a scientist thinks in regards that. Military grade nerve agent is supposed to affect you relatively quickly.

wexie Registered User
#279

Cheerful
That it took nearly 3 hours for Novitchok to affect them is ludicrous. I love to know what a scientist thinks in regards that. Military grade nerve is supposed to affect you relatively quickly.


And you know this because.....?

Maybe it takes a lot longer when it's absorbed through the skin rather than inhaled, maybe it was Novichok 'lite'™. There are any number of plausible reasons for this, all of which experts have already looked at.

You could really do with trying to understand Occam's razor

Cheerful Spring Registered User
#280

wexie said:
And you know this because.....?

Maybe it takes a lot longer when it's absorbed through the skin rather than inhaled, maybe it was Novichok 'lite'™. There are any number of plausible reasons for this, all of which experts have already looked at.

You could really do with trying to understand Occam's razor


If you think that's even remotely possible post information from a scientist who has claimed this can occur, otherwise it just a strawman to deflect.

mcmoustache Registered User
#281

Billy86 said:
Not directly related but Dutch intelligence have detained two further spies trying to break into a Swiss lab - https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/09/russian-spies-detained-in-the-hague-were-planning-cyber-break-in-at-swiss-lab-nrc/

Mainly linking because I got a laugh that of all labs, he spies targeted the Spiez lab.


Maybe these rogue tourists who poisoned the Skripals had some other rogue friends who were just trying to help them out.

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Cheerful Spring Registered User
#282

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent

Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Someone better explain how the Skipral walked around for 3 hours and never showed symptoms?

mcmoustache Registered User
#283

Cheerful Spring said:
What is ridiculous you have accepted this narrative even though we have no evidence the Skiprals returned home after leaving at 9 am in the morning and for some unknown reason, it took 3 hours for Novitchok to work. I don't believe the British police version of them touching the door sometime between 12 am and 1 pm. Their movements have been tracked from 1 pm to 4 pm


Cheerful Spring said:
It based on evidence, that you don't seem to care about. The Skiprals its established fact not Russian propaganda were having meals at restaurants and pubs from 1.15pm to 4 pm. That it took nearly 3 hours for Novitchok to affect them is ludicrous. I love to know what a scientist thinks in regards that. Military grade nerve agent is supposed to affect you relatively quickly.


This has been explained to you by others multiple times. The potency, amount and delivery mechanism make a huge difference.

ohnonotgmail Registered User
#284

Cheerful
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent

Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Someone better explain how the Skipral walked around for 3 hours and never showed symptoms?



you should really try to read all of a page before replying. you missed this bit just further down. I was just about to post a link to that page so you saved me the bother.


Symptoms are the same as those of other nerve agents as shown in Table 5.11 (p. 257). Local effects are thought to be immediate, while systemic effects may be delayed up to 18 hours.



UP TO 18 HOURS. So tell me now how it is inconceivable that they were still alive 3 hours later?

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Edgarfrndly Registered User
#285

Cheerful
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent

Novichok is reported to be 5–8 times more lethal than VX nerve agent and effects are rapid, usually within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Someone better explain how the Skipral walked around for 3 hours and never showed symptoms?


The main route of exposure is thought to be by inhalation, although absorption may also occur via skin or mucous membrane exposure.


That is why ^

The duration it takes to affect via skin is substantially longer.

Skin exposure to VX does not cause immediate or rapid poisoning. Indeed, the first signs and symptoms of exposure can take up to 18 hours.


Source: https://theconversation.com/how-novichok-is-different-from-radioactive-poisons-and-what-this-means-for-decontamination-99464

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