Omackeral Registered User
#1

THE IRISH PRISON service is in dire need of more women and ethnic minorities to work as prison officers across the country.
Right now, there are just over 3,000 people working in the system – most of them are white men – something which prison bosses want to see change in the coming months. - THEJOURNAL.IE


Excuse the pun but colour me shocked that most of the staff in an Irish male dominated profession are white males! That's just lazy writing.


The style of the piece is also pretty ridiculous in that they can almost factually say the service is in ''dire need'' of more women and ethnic minorities. What do they base this on? What dire need is this? I myself work in the service and have never heard this clamor for diversity or heard of a need for it. There are diversity training programmes we undertake and that's for the betterment of the service but surely this is basically affirmative action being called for? Why not just have the best person for the job regardless of race or gender? Quotas are foolish and they actually undermine people who succeed but probably aren't getting there on merit. There are staff from various backgrounds already and they're in the job because they applied like everyone else and got through because they impressed. Is there a need to effectively openly advertise for non-white men? Is it ethically sound or even legal!?


What's your thoughts?

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DEFTLEFTHAND Registered User
#2

I understand it's an open competition. Let the best and most capable candidates for the role get the job, rergardless of race, sex, background etc.

The only thing quotas do is breed mediocrity .

26 people have thanked this post
The_Valeyard Registered User
#3

Omackeral said:
That's just lazy writing.



Its Thejournal.ie


Its all lazy writing, copy pasted or agenda pieces.

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TheDavester Registered User
#4

The lastest whinge fest of the journal and their teenage journalists....who actually subscribes to their nonsense

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Wisesmurf Registered User
#5

90+% of workplace deaths are men. The vast majority of primary school teachers are women.

I'm sick of balancing job gender ratios for the sake of it. In Sweden where they have social parity decades ahead of many of the rest of Europe they have many of the same gender dominant jobs as here.

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professore Registered User
#6

They really want more women with murderers and rapists? What could possibly go wrong???

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Noveight Registered User
#7

An article in which logic and common sense is overrun by a need to pander to the vocal minority. Best ignore it.

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cantdecide Registered User
#8

DEFTLEFTHAND said:
I understand it's an open competition. Let the best and most capable candidates for the role get the job, rergardless of race, sex, background etc.

The only thing quotas do is breed mediocrity .


But it's the current year.

Omackeral Registered User
#9

I wonder if Citybins or Panda Waste are gonna look for more ladies to pick up the wheelie-bins in their next recruitment drive!? Has anyone ever seen a female collector or a binwoman if that's what they'd be called?

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Omackeral Registered User
#10

If you're talking about Travellers, they don't dominate the prison population at all. They're most definitely over represented as a group when compared with their numbers in wider society alright but when it comes to strictly prison figures, they're a minority still.

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punisher5112 Registered User
#11

So with the new recruitment drive will they be placing more space for women and blacks?


Women are starting to take many high ranking positions.

Look at rte, nta, many many other government departments and so on.

I've no issue at all with them being there and in those positions but the crying all the time about equal rights etc etc.... I think it's starting to go way too far with all the rubbish been thrown out there

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Victor Registered User
#12

From here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irish-jails-home-to-prisoners-of-66-nationalities-1.2892735 it seems that there are only 21 non-Irish prison officers out of more than 3,000 prisoner officers.

Omackeral said:
The style of the piece is also pretty ridiculous in that they can almost factually say the service is in ''dire need'' of more women and ethnic minorities.
Maybe they are. With relatively few women in the service, those officers will have to do all of certain activities, e.g. searches of female prisoners. If foreign prisoners see that there are essentially only white, Irish, male offices, might they not get the impression that the system is inherently biased? Are the current officers able to converse in the languages of all prisoners? Are officers familiar with the nuances of prisoners background cultures - at one point foreign prisoners asked that something other than potatoes be served 7 days a week, which resulted in cost savings?

What do they base this on?
Them being the management of the Prison Service?

surely this is basically affirmative action being called for?
Or countering a stacked system?

Why not just have the best person for the job regardless of race or gender?
Your impression of the best person and someone else's might differ.

Maybe officer X is middling as a prison officer, but speaks even basic Polish or Brazilian Portuguese and can create a rapport with prisoners than results in an overall safer, more compliant prison regime? Maybe officer Y is an excellent search officer, but society's rules say he shouldn't be doing intimate exams on female prisoners or general searches of visitors?

Quotas ... undermine people who succeed but probably aren't getting there on merit.
Did that come out right?

Is there a need to effectively openly advertise for non-white men?
It seems so.

Is it ethically sound or even legal!?
If there is an operational need that can't be filled from the typical applicants or to counter past discrimination, then yes.

2 people have thanked this post
punisher5112 Registered User
#13

Why pander to non nationals though???

It's an Irish prison on Irish soil.

I firmly believe we should be similar in how the likes of France & Germany run things in so far as their own citizens may only apply and get said jobs.

If the non nationals feel hard done by then don't do the crime exactly the same way I put it to our own citizens, if they don't like it then choose another direction in life.

11 people have thanked this post
Victor Registered User
#14

Your pants are on fire: http://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/snap_nationality_profile_-2007_2014.pdf - 87-89% are Irish. Some of the foreign committals will be for immigration issues.

punisher5112 said:
Why pander to non nationals though???
It's an operational need, not pandering.

I firmly believe we should be similar in how the likes of France & Germany run things in so far as their own citizens may only apply and get said jobs.
You might have heard of the EU and the right to move and work in other countries? We can work there, they can work here.

If the non nationals feel hard done by then don't do the crime
You might have noticed this is about prison officers, not prisoners.

professore said:
They really want more women with murderers and rapists? What could possibly go wrong???
What if those murderers and rapists are female murderers and rapists? Or what if they are just female shop-lifters?

Omackeral Registered User
#15

Not gonna get into a tit for tat multiquote war with you Victor but some of your points I do take. As far as the language goes, what happens if there's a Brazilian inmate but no Portuguese speaking staff? Do we hire one specifically just for him? Do we hire one officer for every conceivable language there is? If we get a Vietnamese guy in and there's staff who speak Russian, Arabic and Finnish but not Vietnamese, he's gonna feel even more isolated.

Another point you touched on was ''are officers familiar with backgrounds and cultures''. They are trained to be more and more, there's been a strong push in academia and diversity the last ten years. Kosher and Halal diets are catered for, things like that. You don't necessarily need a Jewish or Muslim chef to prepare those meals.

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