CarlosHarpic Registered User
#1

Spent the last two days reading back threads on here and the train sub forum for 8 years of threads and one particular dynamic jumps out is the CIE rail and bus unions and strikes. They are to strikes what KFC is to fried chicken.

There are almost no threads about new services or positive development in CIE public transport when compared to strikes and industrial action threads. The CIE unions live in a permanent 'strike soon 'mode.

As much as I love the DART underground idea. No way can tax payers money be fed into such an important project with this twisted union culture holding power over it.

Metro all the way.

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endacl Registered User
#2

CarlosHarpic said:
Spent the last two days reading back threads on here and the train sub forum for 8 years of threads

Now, that's pathological.

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end of the road Registered User
#3

CarlosHarpic said:
Spent the last two days reading back threads on here and the train sub forum for 8 years of threads and one particular dynamic jumps out is the CIE rail and bus unions and strikes. They are to strikes what KFC is to fried chicken.

There are almost no threads about new services or positive development in CIE public transport when compared to strikes and industrial action threads. The CIE unions live in a permanent 'strike soon 'mode.


unions in the odd strike shocker. unions exist in a number of , if not most large public transport companies both public and private, and they strike. it's a fact of life.

CarlosHarpic said:
As much as I love the DART underground idea. No way can tax payers money be fed into such an important project with this twisted union culture holding power over it. Metro all the way.


yes it can. the unions have nothing to do with the project. DU is a needed project and is separate to metro, not building it because it's operator has a union is just a copout excuse. also, the metro very may well have a union or unions. in fact it's highly likely it will as there will be some staff working on it. assuming it is ever built.

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#4

Unions standing up for workers rights is a bad thing now?
Workers should be lucky to have a job, never mind pay or conditions?

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LeinsterDub Registered User
#5

When you have places like IÉ that didn't get a pay rise for 8 years you can see why unions would be considering striking. However my major issue with the unions is their resistance to change, and said resistance to changing disappearing when money is found.

Now when I say change I'm talking about stuff that wouldn't really affect your conditions or in other workplaces would be considered all in a days work

For example, training new employees, driving to new stops, electric pay etc.

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brokenarms Registered User
#6

In general they are a good thing. It keeps wages good. Which sets a standard of pay for the whole industry.

But. I have seen so many instances where the union craps on its newer members to facilitate it old members. In Dublin bus. When I say newer, people there less that a decade.

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Stephen15 Registered User
#7

One thing that's never been made clear to me is in DB, IE and BE do workers have to be in a union ie is it a closed shop? Just wondering more out of curiosity than anything. Always assumed it was but am not 100% sure.

brokenarms Registered User
#8

Stephen15 said:
One thing that's never been made clear to me is in DB, IE and BE do workers have to be in a union ie is it a closed shop? Just wondering more out of curiosity than anything. Always assumed it was but am not 100% sure.


One is required to join commencing employment.

DaCor Registered User
#9

brokenarms said:
One is required to join commencing employment.


Who sets that requirement?

newcavanman Registered User
#10

Stephen15 said:
One thing that's never been made clear to me is in DB, IE and BE do workers have to be in a union ie is it a closed shop? Just wondering more out of curiosity than anything. Always assumed it was but am not 100% sure.


I know quite a few people in DB and IE , and the truth is , you'd get no thanks for saying you didnt want to go on strike . While i really like trains, unless you live in a few particular areas, they are just a disaster financially in ireland. While there is a case for DART and outer suburban services in the Dublin area, not too many people round the rest of the country are willing to actually pay to use their services. Its a lt easier to drive, thats the simple fact unless you live within 10 miles of a mainline station . And for those not living that near, if they want to use public transport , there are a plethora of private bus services .
The public transport unions are like dinosaurs. They cant and wont see , that they need to move with the times or they will die. I really believe its only a matter of time. When the next major economic shock comes along , the government of the day will have to make some very very hard decsions

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Wishbone Ash Registered User
#11

brokenarms said:
One is required to join commencing employment.
I'm open to correction but I think the Industrial Relations Act 1990 ended the requirement to join a trade union in any workplace. Just as an employee has a constitution right to be in a trade union, they also have a right not to be in a trade union.

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goingnowhere Registered User
#12

Agreed, there was/are at least 2 DART drivers who are not union members

Idbatterim Registered User
#13

The puss taking is supported by government. When they strike and just get what they want and are used to it. Of course their behaviour won't change. Last time they striked, id have walked away from the table and shut down rail transport for a few days. Let's see how their behaviour chahges when their pay is being targeted.

trellheim Registered User
#14

Unions standing up for workers rights is a bad thing now?
Workers should be lucky to have a job, never mind pay or conditions?


In many workplace the Unions and management work closely together to achieve an optimal outcome. You do not see much of this because it happens quietly because airing in public brings no benefits.

CIE Unions seem to believe it is all a zero-sum game, nothing for nothing.

The dogma - as can be seen here from the regularly deleted postings that mention "thatcherite", "blueshirt" and other such terms, seem to indicate thinking stuck in the '70s and hold up management as 'dem bosses'

In addition there is a culture of complaint about every single thing. Management gave a 500 euro tax free voucher (500!) and they found ways to whinge about it.

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end of the road Registered User
#15

newcavanman said:
While i really like trains, unless you live in a few particular areas, they are just a disaster financially in ireland. While there is a case for DART and outer suburban services in the Dublin area, not too many people round the rest of the country are willing to actually pay to use their services. Its a lt easier to drive, thats the simple fact unless you live within 10 miles of a mainline station . And for those not living that near, if they want to use public transport , there are a plethora of private bus services .


private bus services do not meet and cannot meet the needs of those currently using rail services, for which only those rail services can meet our needs. the vast majority of rail services in ireland are well used and have room for growth. trains all over the world require subsidy, and the trains in ireland in the majority of cases are far from a financial disaster. in fact, ireland does get a very cheap rail service in terms of tax payer contributions (it has a whole lot of problems which are easily solvible however)

newcavanman said:
The public transport unions are like dinosaurs. They cant and wont see , that they need to move with the times or they will die. I really believe its only a matter of time. When the next major economic shock comes along , the government of the day will have to make some very very hard decsions


the unions are perfectly fine. the only way they will die is if no new members join. new members will join, especially as people get sick of the likes of 0 hours and other employer methods of screwing employees.

Idbatterim said:
The puss taking is supported by government. When they strike and just get what they want and are used to it. Of course their behaviour won't change. Last time they striked, id have walked away from the table and shut down rail transport for a few days. Let's see how their behaviour chahges when their pay is being targeted.


they lose pay when they go on strike as they don't get paid. so what you would do isn't viable or valid because the aim is already achieved due to being on strike. it would disrupt those of us using rail for longer then maybe necessary out of spite to get at the unions also, which i and many others would not tolerate. i'm okay with my services being disrupted due to strike action, i'm not okay with it being disrupted out of spite to get at unions and their members.

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