must have a jest Registered User
#16

Retd.LoyolaCpt said:
A few more entrants recently - 20 in all (2 IMs, 8 FMs):

IM Alex Lopez
IM Sam Collins
FM Conor O'Donnell
FM Stephen Jessel
FM Conor Murphy
FM Stephen Brady
FM Colm Daly
FM Joe Ryan
FM Tom O'Gorman
FM John Delaney
Jonathan O'Connor
Killian Delaney
Gordon Freeman
Gerry O'Connell
Henry Li
Stephen Moran
Anthony Fox
John McMorrow
Peter Carroll
Peter Cafolla



See the entries from a couple of months ago; you are well aware of exactly what happened. A player who was over 1900 when he entered (and higher rated than you), subsequently went under 1900. You can't expect players to vanish off the list automatically as their ratings fluctuate. Just let the tournament controller sort out the final entry list in July or whenever he decides.

cdeb Moderator
#17

I think the player in question isn't on that list.

Is the special invite thing brought in at the AGM a few years back still around?

Edit - sorry; sodacat mentions an "ineligible Gonzaga player". That then does tie back to your list, and they have been above 1900 recently. So given that there's no lower section to bump them down into, it would indeed be unreasonable to remove them entirely.

must have a jest Registered User
#18

He has complained about more than one player. You can go to the site and enter whether you are eligible or not. I think Sodacat entered when he was under 1900 ICU but presumably still over 1900 FIDE, which is fine, but the system doesn't know that. It's up to the organiser to confirm the final entry.

must have a jest Registered User
#19

I don't know if the rule about inviting extra players still exists. It looks like it hasn't been employed anyway.

cdeb Moderator
#20

It may be too that sodacat got a player's club wrong.

I think it's worth him clarifying. Certainly the "Gonzaga old boys network" comment should be retracted I think.

Edit - actually, I thought the Gonzaga player had a live rating over 1900 this year, but I'm wrong; he was never over 1900. He 10 points short, and the other player in question was 20 points short.

I agree that obviously the entry system is such that any player can enter and appear on the list, and we've seen it many times with other tournaments where they get bumped down a section subsequently.

But this does appear to be a flexibility of the rules alright. Though the phrase "Gonzaga old boys network" is still unhelpful.

brilliantboy Registered User
#21

cdeb said:
Though the phrase "Gonzaga old boys network" is still unhelpful.


but still hilarious

sodacat11 Registered User
#22

must have a jest said:
He has complained about more than one player. You can go to the site and enter whether you are eligible or not. I think Sodacat entered when he was under 1900 ICU but presumably still over 1900 FIDE, which is fine, but the system doesn't know that. It's up to the organiser to confirm the final entry.


Just to put the record straight, I would not be such a hypocrite as to enter the Irish Ch if I was under 1900.What happened was my rating dropped 100 points to 1896 in the space of a few weeks at the beginning of the season so I played in more tournaments than I normally do to get my rating back up. Once I was over 1900 again on the live list I entered the Irish Ch but my rating popped up as being still 1896 even though I was something like 1929 in reality.
As for bumping people out, that is exactly what happened to me in Bunratty, my rating had dropped so even though I had entered the Masters when around 2000 I got demoted to the Challengers where I then rightfully belonged . I had no problem with that but then a few players rated even lower than me did get in for reasons known only to the organisers. As it turned out I very much enjoyed playing in the Challengers.
Must have a Jest is also wrong when he says that Carroll was over 1900 when he originally entered the Irish Ch, he WAS NOT. Sanjay Menon has never been 1900 on either list.
Eamon Keogh IS over 1900 on the FIDE list, and is a past Irish champion, so I've no problem with him playing.

sodacat11 Registered User
#23

brilliantboy said:
but still hilarious


The ICU is for the most part run by "Gonzaga old boys" and no one has heaped more praise on them than I have since they came to power but in this instance, (If the rules are not adhered to) they are abusing that power, ignoring the history of our national championship, and undermining what should be an elite event.

sodacat11 Registered User
#24

must have a jest said:
See the entries from a couple of months ago; you are well aware of exactly what happened. A player who was over 1900 when he entered (and higher rated than you), subsequently went under 1900. You can't expect players to vanish off the list automatically as their ratings fluctuate. Just let the tournament controller sort out the final entry list in July or whenever he decides.


I think perhaps an apology is due to me as everything quoted above was pure balderdash and completely untrue.

sodacat11 Registered User
#25

Yippee!!! The 1700 player has been removed from the list of entrants. A victory for common sense. Talented kids have their whole lives ahead of them to play in Irish Championships, handing them everything on a plate is no good for them chess wise or character wise. Far better to make them achieve things rather than to mollycoddle and pamper them.
I hate having this debate about rating floors all the time. There should be no room for argument ,,,1900 you are in 1899 you are not,,,,,,,Bunratty 2000 in, 1999 out. Simple.
In golf if the entry for a championship says that you must be scratch handicap( i.e 0.4) or better then that's it. You don't get in with a 1 handicap even if you are 0.5 , just .1 away from scratch.
In athletics if the qualifying time for the Olympic 100 metres is 10.2 seconds you do not get in with 10.3 even if you are a six year old who can run that time. I really don't see why chess should be any different.

Retd.LoyolaCpt Registered User
#26

At the time Peter Carroll entered, his rating was 1940 (a foreign event would eventually be rated which lowers this "live" rating). Two of his events were rated out of order, but his official high live rating at the end of an event was approx 1915 (before the NCC but after rounds 9-10 of Heidenfeld). I would not have included him on my second draft of entries if he was not above 1900 on the Event page.

Sanjay's highest rating appears to have been 1881 and current rating is about 100 points below that. He was entered without prior approval and is now no longer on the list of entries. He was never published here or on chess-results as an entry - the ICU list auto-updates upon receiving an entry unlike my posts here or chess-results. If I'd been emailed to fix this, it would have been resolved a lot quicker than 10 posts complaining/speculating about it.

Out of a 13 member executive, Gonzaga CC has 3 members which will soon fall to 2; and could be 0 come the new season. Certainly groundless accusations of abuse don't do much to further anyone's interest in ICU roles. Especially in two consecutive threads.

There are a few mistakes on the flyer I'll clear up once back from abroad - the "July Rating List" should be the June rating list. The July Rating list would not be published until the end of July which doesn't make sense if entries close a week prior - this was meant as the rating list published at the start of July (which would be the June rating list). This is cleared up in the T&Cs.

For whatever reason, I also didn't state that FIDE ratings of 1900+ would be allowed to register - which they will. I think my thought process at the time was to leave no ambiguity about what entry fees are tied to (ICU rating). I will fix this - however, I did have it stated in the T&Cs.

The issue of invited players (or wildcards) and all of the above is detailed and is hyperlinked from the flyer in the terms and conditions: https://www.icu.ie/articles/670. Those rules were input in the 2014 AGM.

3 people have thanked this post
Retd.LoyolaCpt Registered User
#27

Current List:

GM Alex Baburin
IM Alex Lopez
IM Sam Collins
IM Gavin Wall
FM Conor O'Donnell
FM Stephen Jessel
FM Conor Murphy
FM Stephen Brady
FM Colm Daly
FM Joe Ryan
FM Tom O'Gorman
FM John Delaney
Jonathan O'Connor
Killian Delaney
Gordon Freeman
Paul Wallace
Gerry O'Connell
Henry Li
Stephen Moran
Shane Melaugh
Anthony Fox
Mihailo Manojlovic
Gavin Melaugh
John McMorrow
Paul O'Neill
Conor Nolan
Peter Cafolla
Eamon Keogh
Peter Carroll

3 people have thanked this post
sodacat11 Registered User
#28

Well thank you for clearing that up. Seeing a 1700 player on the list was like a red rag to a bull for me.
My one remaining bone of contention is this silly wild card or invitee business, other terms for nepotism if you ask me.
I can see the logic in giving the organiser the right to invite one player but only if there is already an uneven number and only if the player concerned is the highest available.
This business of junior or regional nominees is a load of bullocks (sic) and just another way to sneak people in under the radar. The motion was carried at an AGM but mostly by people who never were and never will be 1900 rated players. What right have these tin pot dictators to make the rules for a tournament that doesn't concern them? You may as well ask Donald Trump to make the rules for the E.E.C.s monetary policy. It is blatantly wrong to let some promising junior play just because he is from Kilkenny for example instead of Donegal or because his father is sponsoring the tournament or because he might go to the same school as someone on the ICU when another player of similar talent might have no useful connections or live in the wrong part of the country. The rating system may not be perfect but it is the fairest system that we have. Players should be made to earn the right to play in an Irish Championship like the rest of us have had to do. No special cases, no favouritism, no nepotism.

pawntof4 Registered User
#29

sodacat11 said:
The motion was carried at an AGM but mostly by people who never were and never will be 1900 rated players. What right have these tin pot dictators to make the rules for a tournament that doesn't concern them?


Paying members of the ICU have a right to vote on motions proposed at the AGM? There is nothing dictatorial about that.

sodacat11 said:
It is blatantly wrong to let some promising junior play just because he is from Kilkenny for example instead of Donegal or because his father is sponsoring the tournament or because he might go to the same school as someone on the ICU when another player of similar talent might have no useful connections or live in the wrong part of the country.


This sort of statement is not very helpful. If you have come across what you perceive as unfair treatment of one player over another why not lodge a complaint with the ICU?

terradat Registered User
#30

Just of topic there for a moment,
Does anybody have any information about the Drogheda Congress that concluded this weekend ?????

Want to share your thoughts?

Login here to discuss!