dense Registered User
#691

Twenty Grand said:
What are you talking about? Tesla model 3 is nearly the best selling sedan in the US, definitely the best electric and best luxury car, and they're hitting their stride making it now.




You are hoplessly deluded.


Here is a list of the Top 20 car sales by rank as at mid August.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/best-selling-sedans-in-america-in-2018-2018-8?r=US&IR=T/#19-mazda3-35796-101-2


No sign of Tesla.


Here is the top sales list as of September


https://focus2move.com/usa-best-selling-cars/


No sign of Tesla.


You've been reading too much Teslaspin, the gist of which is explained here, hint, it's got to do with moving goalposts.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-market-share-claims-are-flawed-2018-6?r=US&IR=T


Maybe Elon has some special sales charts that say it's the best selling car in the US with just a 2% market share?


https://www.statista.com/statistics/519579/market-share-of-tesla-in-the-united-states/

markodaly Registered User
#692

dense said:
Wrong guess.




Emphasis on 'could'.

markodaly Registered User
#693

dense said:
You are hoplessly deluded.

Here is a list of the Top 20 car sales by rank as at mid August.



He said sedan, not car overall.

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/07/20180730_Tesla_Sales.jpg

markodaly Registered User
#694

dense said:


Seems like a waste seeing as nobody except the manufacturers seem to want self driving cars.


Sure what would car manufacturers know about the automobile industry?

dense Registered User
#695

markodaly said:
Sure what would car manufacturers know about the automobile industry?



About autos, lots, not so much about the technology that nobody wants that the clowns in Silicon Valley are indulging themselves with.


The auto manufacturers are over a barell on this, and they're playing catch up.


They're afraid to be seen as old technology and so have formed new "alliances" with the tech kids who are out to prove a point, that at some point in the future an autonomous vehicle might just work.


The traditional auto manufacturers want their name linked to that because they feel it'll make them appear cutting edge and on trend.


The really interesting part is that the new alliance is costing the old car manufacturers big bucks.


It may or may not sound their death knell, because as we have seen, in spite of all the pretend frustration and unhappiness about aspects of driving, drivers do really appear to enjoy being drivers and want to stay being drivers and don't appear to want to be in a world stuffed full of driverless cars.

DaCor Registered User
#696

dense said:
About autos, lots, not so much about the technology that nobody wants that the clowns in Silicon Valley are indulging themselves with.

The auto manufacturers are over a barell on this, and they're playing catch up.

They're afraid to be seen as old technology and so have formed new "alliances" with the tech kids who are out to prove a point, that at some point in the future an autonomous vehicle might just work.

The traditional auto manufacturers want their name linked to that because they feel it'll make them appear cutting edge and on trend.

The really interesting part is that the new alliance is costing the old car manufacturers big bucks.

It may or may not sound their death knell, because as we have seen, in spite of all the pretend frustration and unhappiness about aspects of driving, drivers do really appear to enjoy being drivers and want to stay being drivers and don't appear to want to be in a world stuffed full of driverless cars.


Is this just random stabs in the dark, wild ass guessing and make-believe or do you actually have anything to back up what you have said

dense Registered User
#697

DaCor said:
Is this just random stabs in the dark, wild ass guessing and make-believe or do you actually have anything to back up what you have said



No, of course not, it is just a personal opinion, but do you yourself have a better explanation as to why auto manufacturers with no expertise in self driving software development are spending billions on driverless technology that nobody outside of Silicon Valley is looking for?


Share it if you do?

mdebets Registered User
#698

dense said:
No, of course not, it is just a personal opinion, but do you yourself have a better explanation as to why auto manufacturers with no expertise in self driving software development are spending billions on driverless technology that nobody outside of Silicon Valley is looking for?


Share it if you do?

It's no wonder that people if asked today, don't want self-driving cars, because they don't exist yet and people haven't experienced them. If you go by your logic, we wouldn't have mobile phones, because if you asked people if they want one back in the 80s or early 90, few would have said they want one, yet today, everyone has one. The same will happen to self-driving cars. Once they go past the early adopters and people see the big advantages, no one wants to be driving themselves anymore.
As to traditional car companies, they don't really want them, as you can see that serious development and actually selling has only taken off in the last few years, after non-car companies have started developing cars.
For a traditional car company, electric and self-driving cars are a bad thing, they have to invest heavily, to develop the new technology, rather than just updating existing technology and raising the prices. They will also earn less from replacement parts and have to give their authorised garages more of a share in the sale price, to compensate for the reduction in maintenance income, as an electric motor needs less maintenance than an ICE.
Add to this, that a move to a more car sharing model would also mean a drop in sales numbers, as you need fewer cars.
All this means that traditional car manufacturers don't really want a self-driving car, but are forced by the likes of Tesla or Google, to not being made totally redundant.

1 person has thanked this post
orangerhyme Registered User
#699

mdebets said:
It's no wonder that people if asked today, don't want self-driving cars, because they don't exist yet and people haven't experienced them. If you go by your logic, we wouldn't have mobile phones, because if you asked people if they want one back in the 80s or early 90, few would have said they want one, yet today, everyone has one. The same will happen to self-driving cars. Once they go past the early adopters and people see the big advantages, no one wants to be driving themselves anymore.
As to traditional car companies, they don't really want them, as you can see that serious development and actually selling has only taken off in the last few years, after non-car companies have started developing cars.
For a traditional car company, electric and self-driving cars are a bad thing, they have to invest heavily, to develop the new technology, rather than just updating existing technology and raising the prices. They will also earn less from replacement parts and have to give their authorised garages more of a share in the sale price, to compensate for the reduction in maintenance income, as an electric motor needs less maintenance than an ICE.
Add to this, that a move to a more car sharing model would also mean a drop in sales numbers, as you need fewer cars.
All this means that traditional car manufacturers don't really want a self-driving car, but are forced by the likes of Tesla or Google, to not being made totally redundant.


It'll be an economic catastrophe.
Self-driving electric cars will lead to huge job losses in taxi drivers, van, truck, pizza delivery, also petrol stations, mechanics, car dealerships, car parts manufactures etc etc.
Some traditional big name manufacturers will go bust.
Car ownership and sales will fall off a cliff sometime in the 2020s

dense Registered User
#700

mdebets said:
It's no wonder that people if asked today, don't want self-driving cars, because they don't exist yet and people haven't experienced them. If you go by your logic, we wouldn't have mobile phones, because if you asked people if they want one back in the 80s or early 90, few would have said they want one, yet today, everyone has one. The same will happen to self-driving cars. Once they go past the early adopters and people see the big advantages, no one wants to be driving themselves anymore.



That analogy is flawed.


By your logic, if you had asked people in the days of brick analogue 088 phones would they be interested in a phone with today's features you are saying they would have said no. I find that hard to accept.


Cars already exist. Nice ones.
Cheap ones, expensive ones, ones that sometimes people have an affinity to.


And while that can be dismissed as waffle, the fact is that cars do permit people the chance to switch off and have a bit of independence and a bit of privacy.

The difference today is that people may be reluctant to embrace a technology where they literally are no longer in the driving seat, and are reluctant to buy into the idea because autonomous cars have very few tangible selling points.


The reason people are not interested is because the USP of an autonomous vehicle has not been identified and can not be really explained.


mdebets said:


As to traditional car companies, they don't really want them, as you can see that serious development and actually selling has only taken off in the last few years, after non-car companies have started developing cars.
For a traditional car company, electric and self-driving cars are a bad thing, they have to invest heavily, to develop the new technology, rather than just updating existing technology and raising the prices. They will also earn less from replacement parts and have to give their authorised garages more of a share in the sale price, to compensate for the reduction in maintenance income, as an electric motor needs less maintenance than an ICE.
Add to this, that a move to a more car sharing model would also mean a drop in sales numbers, as you need fewer cars.
All this means that traditional car manufacturers don't really want a self-driving car, but are forced by the likes of Tesla or Google, to not being made totally redundant.



Agreed, dependent on the outcome of current research and whether the public attitude to them changes .

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