Fian Registered User
#1

There is a new proposal that wheelchairs be permitted to use the cycle lanes rather than the footpaths. This is apparently because of footpaths being blocked and more difficult to navigate.

I am somewhat conflicted about this - certainly couldn't begrudge a wheelchair user using the cycle lane if it makes getting around easier for them but i am worried about the safety issue - Bicycles coming around a corner at speed to find a wheelchair in the cycle lane in front of them which might not end well for either party.

Is anyone aware of a similar scheme operating elsewhere in the world and how it works out?

Macy0161 Registered User
#2

Fian said:
There is a new proposal that wheelchairs be permitted to use the cycle lanes rather than the footpaths. This is apparently because of footpaths being blocked and more difficult to navigate.

Not convinced they'll find cycle lanes any better in this regard tbh. Do they propose on road one's too?

Usual misdirected solution - they should be tackling all the cars parked on the pavements! Obviously they're all hover cars too, as motorists don't drive on pavements, only cyclists...

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tomasrojo Registered User
#3

I think they are allowed to use the cycle lanes already. At least electric wheelchairs:
http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/17/hold-vote-to-allow-visual-impaired-people-to-use-dublins-cycle-lanes-says-lord-mayor/


In the Netherlands, the cycle infrastructure is a valuable resource for people in mobility scooters and electric wheelchairs. But they have very good, properly networked infrastructure. I don't think many people would begrudge them the use here, but since it's rubbish, and sometimes dangerous rubbish, I'm not sure I'd encourage them to use it.

The bit about people with sight impairment using them is just bizarre.

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HivemindXX Registered User
#4

I'm pretty sure that wheelchairs can already use the cycle lanes. Perhaps this is just motorised ones. Either way I don't think it's much of a safety issue, nobody should be going around the corner so fast that they couldn't see an obstruction in time to stop. I'm hard pressed to think of an example where this might be an issue, most corners that are so sharp that you can't see around them require you to slow down a lot anyway. There really aren't that many people in wheelchairs using the footpaths in my experience anyway. Perhaps this is an indictment of how difficult it is for wheelchair users to get around. Either way if every wheelchair user I've ever seen on the footpath had been on the cycle path instead it would have made almost no difference to me.

The insane thing about Carr's comment is that he is not just talking about wheelchairs. He specifically mentioned people with sight disabilities and mobility issues which surely covers people on crutches and those who require walking sticks as well.

Anyone with any intelligence whatsoever should be able to see many problems with this idea but to enumerate a few:-

+ Cycle lanes on the footpath are just as full of crap as the pedestrian part.

+ Cycle lanes randomly begin and end, sometimes dumping the users back on to a busy road. This is not ideal for a 90 year old with a walking frame.

+ How is someone who is visually impaired to know when the road narrows and the painted on cycle lane disappears leaving them walking on the side of the road.

+ In the extremely frequent event that a car has parked up on the footpath partially blocking that and completely blocking the cycle lane what is a person with a disability to do? They can either climb back up on to the pavement (with some difficulty presumably) and pass the car on the inside (these people usually don't block the entire footpath), or they can do like cyclists have to and merge in to traffic and pass the obstruction in the car lane. Would a slow moving person with mobility issues or a blind person be willing or capable of doing this?

Here's a less insanely stupid idea... If you actually care about people with disabilities using the footpaths then reduce the amount of crap on the footpaths as much as possible and fine people who block them with their cars.

Based on Carr's previous statements I doubt he really wants to help people with disabilities, he just thinks this is a good opportunity to try and paint cyclists as being selfish gits who don't support the disabled. Unfortunately for him I doubt any disabled person thinks this is a good idea and hopefully all he's managed to do is make a fool of himself to a wider audience.

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Jep Gambardella Famously Vigorous Service Provider
#5

There's lots of people who don't give a f**k about others the way they park. I often have to take a double buggy out on to the road because some eejit has blocked the footpath. I'm gaining a new appreciation of what it must be like to get around in a wheelchair.

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dball Registered User
#6

they allow cars in the cycle lanes in Amsterdam, i was there a few weeks ago and I could not stop laughing - in fairness they are funny to look at !
But they were all over the place in the city

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gctest50 Registered User
#7

RSF1 Twizy be a bit less wonky


loyatemu Registered User
#8

is there currently a law that says they're not allowed use cycle-paths? is there even a law that says you can't walk/jog on a cycle-path?

Jep Gambardella Famously Vigorous Service Provider
#9

The most recent statutory instrument indicates that they're already allowed to use them:

Originally Posted by S.I. No. 332/2012 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012.
14. (1) A cycle track shall be indicated by?

(a) traffic sign number RUS 009 (with-flow cycle track) provided in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) or RRM 023 (broken white line) which latter signs may be marked on the right hand edge of the cycle track or on the right hand and left hand edges of the cycle track,

(b) traffic sign number RUS 059 (contra-flow cycle track) provided in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) which may be marked on the right hand edge of the cycle track or on the left hand edge of the cycle track or on both sides, or

(c) traffic sign number RUS 058 (shared track for pedal cycles and pedestrians).

(2) The periods of operation of a cycle track may be indicated on an information plate which may be provided in association with traffic sign number RUS 009, RUS 059 or RUS 058.

(3) Where a cycle track, provided by traffic sign number RUS 009 in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) or RRM 023 (broken white line), is two-way, pedal cycles shall be driven as near as possible to the left hand side of each lane.

(4) A pedal cycle shall be driven on a cycle track where?

(a) a cycle track is provided on a road, a portion of a road, or an area at the entrance to which traffic sign number RUS 021 (pedestrianised street or area) is provided, or

(b) a cycle track is a contra-flow cycle track where traffic sign number RUS 059 is provided and pedal cycles shall only be driven in a contra-flow direction on such track.

(5)(a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 has been provided, save for the purposes of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.

(b) A reference in paragraph (a) to driving along or across a cycle track shall include a reference to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle track.

Jep Gambardella Famously Vigorous Service Provider
#10

The wording refers to motorized ones. There's no explicit prohibition of manually operated ones or pedestrians.

Fian Registered User
#11

Jep Gambardella said:
The wording refers to motorized ones. There's no explicit prohibition of manually operated ones or pedestrians.


Though a manual one is not a "mechanically propelled vehicle" so it is not necessary to specifically exclude them from a prohibition that doesn't apply in the first place. So it appears clear that they are already entitled to use them.

Jep Gambardella Famously Vigorous Service Provider
#12

That's what I'm reading from it too.

Lumen Registered User
#13

Fian said:
Bicycles coming around a corner at speed to find a wheelchair in the cycle lane in front of them which might not end well for either party.

Obviously you/we/I must cycle/drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance we can see to be clear (and is likely to remain so), but presumably you're talking about people who are too stupid to do this, of which there are unfortunately many on our roads.

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Weepsie Moderator
#15

Fian said:
them but i am worried about the safety issue -

Bicycles coming around a corner at speed to find a wheelchair in the cycle lane in front of them which might not end well for either party.


Absolute BS.

I'll say what I say to drivers about cyclists on a bend. You should always be expecting an obstacle and you should always be taking a bend carefully in the expectation there might be someone or something just around it.

It's not a safety concern at all, though people might genuinely think that. It's worrying about inconvenienced.

Don't take a bend at speed if you're actually concerned about anothers welfare

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