LeinsterDub Registered User
#3,721

Wheety said:
The 14 I'm talking about is the new route under Busconnects so there is no Luas or Dart near the route.

I'm not sure what your first sentence is about because the new 14 could be people's only choice if several of the C buses go past packed.


Sorry , I thought you were referring to the existing 14. Both the 14 and the C meet commuter trains and the Luas at Island Bridge

Because BusConnects has both orbitals and free interchanges . People will be able to get the bus they want to quickest interchange instead of having to go to town.

Wheety Registered User
#3,722

In theory.

Dublin Bus will still be running the buses. Another issue which will crop up is when a bus doesn't run 'due to operational reasons'. This has happened on the 26 at least 5 times over the last few weeks when I have been going home from work. If it's your only bus, you're kinda stuck.

(I haven't changed my opinion on how Chapilizod will be affected by Busconnects but I'm just gong around in circles here.)

Peregrine I can't believe I ate the whole thing
#3,723

Wheety said:
People in Chapilizod are up in arms as this will now be their only bus. The buses are currently full to capacity before Chapilizod. We're being told that the people getting on the 14 before Chapilizod will simply hop off on the N4 and get a bypass bus.

You have to be very naive to believe that will actually happen. If someone has a seat on the 14, they will stay where they are, especially if it's wet and cold out. It's not like the bypass saves you a huge amount of time, maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

I've held my tongue for a bit but I just can't let this one go.

If there was a metro line built along the C spine instead, we'd have you claiming that people will continue to get the long winded bus route through Chapelizod instead of walking 5 mins to get the metro.

Or that the the passenger numbers on the two Luas lines are an illusion and that everyone is actually still getting their local bus.

Habits change when better options are made available to them. We can discuss capacity issues at Chapelizod but the idea that people's commutting habits will remain set in stone even at the face of great change is pure nonsense and isn't something we should be entertaining.

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Wheety Registered User
#3,724

Peregrine said:

If there was a metro line built along the C spine instead, we'd have you claiming that people will continue to get the long winded bus route through Chapelizod instead of walking 5 mins to get the metro.

Or that the the passenger numbers on the two Luas lines are an illusion and that everyone is actually still getting their local bus.

Habits change when better options are made available to them. We can discuss capacity issues at Chapelizod but the idea that people's commutting habits will remain set in stone even at the face of great change is pure nonsense and isn't something we should be entertaining.

The first 2 paragraphs are nonsense.

It's not going to be 'great change'. People can walk down tomorrow morning and get a bypass bus but they still get the 26.

And you're not going to 'entertain' a difference of opinion?

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MJohnston Registered User
#3,725

Wheety said:
Cutting it from 25, 26, 66 and 67 to one bus can't help. While I said several buses go past packed, the 4 buses above stop sometimes to allow people on in Palmerstown.

And I know you'll say everyone will just get a bypass bus under the new system and won't be on the 14. But there are large queues at the 2 stops in Palmertown before the fork every day.

I said I wouldn't be back, but just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!



But the bolded bit is a big miscategorization of what is actually happening. It's a surface level interpretation that doesn't take into account the more subtle issues that the rest of us have mentioned.


I presume by "before the fork" you mean the Kennelsfort Road, but I already mentioned the rationale that I see there. People on that road currently use the 26 because there's no point walking to the N4 for other services - either those services already follow the exact same slower path into the city as the 26 (ie. via Chapelizod), or there's not enough frequency on the two services (25a and b) that use the quicker route via the N4 bypass instead. So, of course you're going to jump on the 26.


But in BusConnects, you'll be able to walk 5 minutes to the N4 and jump on a C-spine bus, all of which will use the quicker N4 bypass route. I believe that most Palmerstown people will be attracted to do this for two reasons, first is that as someone said, there's possibly a 10-15 minute time saving by taking a bus that uses the N4 bypass; second is that the traffic from Kennelsfort onto the N4 is bad enough that walking to the N4 is usually quicker than taking the bus that same distance.


So the 14 will have less pressure on it from Palmerstown passengers compared to the 26. And additionally, while the 26 is currently strictly a 30 minute frequency service, the 14 will have a 15 minute frequency between 7-9am and 3-6pm. So there's an increased number of buses available to the people of Palmerstown and Chapelizod.


By the way, in addition to the proposed 3 minute frequency of the C-spine routes on the N4 at Palmerstown, there will be peak-only routes for the 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, and the 326 all passing through and stopping in Palmerstown on the N4 - this will add an extra 16 buses stopping at Palmerstown between 7am and 8am during the week. So that 3 minute frequency could well end up being even better, or at least with higher capacities for passengers.

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MJohnston Registered User
#3,726

Wheety said:
The first 2 paragraphs are nonsense.

It's not going to be 'great change'. People can walk down tomorrow morning and get a bypass bus but they still get the 26.

And you're not going to 'entertain' a difference of opinion?



As I just pointed out in the post above this, there's no point currently in walking to the bypass, as the options there, with only 2 exceptions, go through Chapelizod too. They won't in future, so there will be much more reason to walk to the bypass.

jd A Rod Metro
#3,727

Hugh Cregan (NTA) confirmed to local politicians that in the next design iteration the proposed C1 will go through Sandymount Village, and not take the coast road.

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Qrt Registered User
#3,728

Does anybody know if there's any indication that the new bus corridors will have high degree speed of priority? As in similar levels to the luas, where it arrives and usually goes through without stopping or just stopping for a short period? I was on the bus to Swords yesterday and the time it spent waiting at lights was awfully high.

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AlekSmart Registered User
#3,729

jd said:
Hugh Cregan (NTA) confirmed to local politicians that in the next design iteration the proposed C1 will go through Sandymount Village, and not take the coast road.


Presumably Hugh is going to finally impliment measures to eradicate the continual and,by now,historic disregard for Parking Regulations endemic to Sandymount Village ?

If he is'nt,then he can kiss goodbye to the C1 offering ANY improvement over the 1,2 & 3 routes of old

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punisher5112 Registered User
#3,730

Qrt said:
Does anybody know if there's any indication that the new bus corridors will have high degree speed of priority? As in similar levels to the luas, where it arrives and usually goes through without stopping or just stopping for a short period? I was on the bus to Swords yesterday and the time it spent waiting at lights was awfully high.



This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.

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Sam Russell Moderator
#3,731

punisher5112 said:
This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.


Actually, all they need to do is make it that a bus pulling out from a stop has priority absolutely, and in the event of an accident, the other driver has to prove the bus driver acted 'recklessly'. So a bus indicated to pull out causes vehicles behind to give way, just like they do for blue flashing lights.

Also, traffic lights keep green for oncoming buses, rather than changing as they arrive.

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punisher5112 Registered User
#3,732

Sam Russell said:
Actually, all they need to do is make it that a bus pulling out from a stop has priority absolutely, and in the event of an accident, the other driver has to prove the bus driver acted 'recklessly'. So a bus indicated to pull out causes vehicles behind to give way, just like they do for blue flashing lights.

Also, traffic lights keep green for oncoming buses, rather than changing as they arrive.


Fully agree and I'll be honest I find the worst for no patience or not letting a bus out to be women.

It's actually got like back in the Celtic tiger where everyone is racing to get ahead to then turn right or left or block the bus from proceeding.

Shocking how little thought is given to be honest.

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Qrt Registered User
#3,733

punisher5112 said:
This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.


Do you have a picture of those lights by any chance?

AlekSmart Registered User
#3,734

Qrt said:
Do you have a picture of those lights by any chance?


Could it be these sets of signals ?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3203178,-6.2682842,3a,75y,10.94h,113.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1_jVCj-NTGvtxn9YDmj-RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It is noteworthy that,in the absence of any priority signal,a Busdriver coming to the end of the Bus Lane MUST give way to traffic on the right hand side,ie: the cars in the outside lane,as is signified by the Yield sign specific to the Bus lane.

This is Bus Priority,as Gaeilge....

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davetherave Registered User
#3,735

IT's in the rules of the road alright but not a law or act.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
Section 5: Good driving practice

You should allow signalling buses back into the stream of traffic after they
let passengers on and of

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