BonnieSituation Registered User
#3,211

Kh1993 said:
Noel Rock (FG) has threatened “war” over bus connects in today’s Herald. Claims the Omni will lose out and that the Swords Road will turn into a “one way system”.

As dangerous and as wrong/dishonest as any of the NBRU or PBP TD’s, and what’s worse is that this fella is actually a government TD, a government who more or less oversee the NTA


He riled me me up something good when he was on the Last Word earlier in the summer complaining about the fact that they weren't consulted about the public consultation. Come on ffs.

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Kh1993 Registered User
#3,212

BonnieSituation said:
He riled me me up something good when he was on the Last Word earlier in the summer complaining about the fact that they weren't consulted about the public consultation. Come on ffs.


He did exactly the same with the Metro. Jumped on Na Fianna’s campaign even though he was asked not to. You’d think a government TD might have a good idea of upcoming government transport plans. The mind boggles.

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Bambi Registered User
#3,213

CatInABox said:
They ran a random survey of bus users at the start of this process, one of the questions was along the lines of "Would you be okay with taking two buses, if it got you to your destination faster?" The response was about 80% positive.

Jarrett Walker has also said that the reaction in Dublin has been less hostile than in other cities which have implemented his proposals.


And I posted this about a hundred pages back, you'd swear I had a crystal ball for this whole project.

It's not really a random survey when you're just sticking a questionnaire out there for anyone to answer. That's why polling companies exist and even then they still get it completely wrong.


Bambi said:
Online survey wasn't it? If you believe online surveys Sinn Fein should have an overall majority in the Dail years ago. Most online surveys aren't worth the paper they're not written on. A lot of people will assume that connecting services mean you're going to be halfway home watching packed buses go past you. And they'll probably be right once the gloss wears off and the media gaze moves on


You'll find the same with the whole promise of local feeder routes, these have been promised in the past when services were streamlined and they turned out to be token efforts, that will undermine them going forward.

Orbital services are a good idea and long overdue

Off peak frequency on all routes will be a real barometer as to how serious they are about this redesign.

xper Registered User
#3,214

AlanG said:
It would be interesting to see how they have generated the figures for present journey times. For my area of blanch the distance you can currently cover in 30 minutes seems way to low unless they assume people leave randomly to stand at bus stops and therefore could be waiting 30 minutes at midday - in reality most people leave when they know a bus is due. .....

The methodology, as re-posted above from their FAQ, is in fact the realistic way of estimating total travel time. When you say people won't leave until a bus is due (especially with RTPI available), that waiting time shouldn't be ignored, it is a genuine delay in getting to your destination from the moment you are prepared to travel. It also reveals the benefit of increasing frequency on a route, even if you change nothing else.

That said, I do think the the travel times are a little pessimistic for off-peak travel, not unlike Google Maps, but there's no great harm in that especially since the main point is to compare before and after with the same methodology applied to both.

xper Registered User
#3,215

In other news, I see that a concerted advertising 'How about that?' advertising campaign encouraging responses to the public consultation has become very prominent this week both online and at bus shelters which is welcome.

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L1011 Moderator
#3,216

Bambi said:
And I posted this about a hundred pages back, you'd swear I had a crystal ball for this whole project.

It's not really a random survey when you're just sticking a questionnaire out there for anyone to answer. That's why polling companies exist and even then they still get it completely wrong.


It was done via RedC. I was one of those polled

Arlessienne Registered User
#3,217

L1011 said:
It was done via RedC. I was one of those polled


Was it? I remember doing the survey and afair I just followed a link posted up here.

CatInABox Moderator
#3,218

Arlessienne said:
Was it? I remember doing the survey and afair I just followed a link posted up here.


It was a combination of online and paper polling. I don't know the split between online and paper.

naughtb4 Registered User
#3,219

davetherave said:
https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1238/chapter6initialpublicconsultation.pdf

12,769 responses to the initial survey

4. Willingness to Interchange
The survey asked how people feel about three statements:

• “We can ask people to change vehicles (buses or trains) once during a trip, if those people reach their destination sooner.” 81% agreed.
• “We can ask people to change vehicles once during a trip, if that creates a network that helps more people reach more destinations sooner.” 80% agreed.
• “We can ask people to change vehicles once during a trip, if it helps make the network simple enough that people can remember it.” 68% agreed.


Key part is in bold

People wont mind changing buses IF it gets them there sooner

I think many people just lack the confidence that that will happen or in the case where direct or express buses are being lost know already that this will either add onto their journey time, or as seems to be the aim in some areas cause them to use other methods of transport

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AlanG Registered User
#3,220

Dardania said:
If you click the More Info, they have this:

How is travel time calculated?

This tool focuses on how far you could go assuming bus, rail and tram frequencies between 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM on weekdays. Travel times including walking, waiting and time on public transport. Because one may need to travel at any time, the tool assumes waiting time is half of the time between buses. For example, if a bus comes every 20 minutes, the tool assumes you would typically wait 10 minutes.


Thanks, missed that, while it is probably the fairest way overall it is not totally consistent with how people on lower frequency routes use the service. It basically shows that the benefit of halving of average wait times in Blanchardstown will be cancelled out by a doubling of journey times to the quays- looks like no change on paper but for most frequent users who time their arrival at the bus stop it will massively increase their journey times towards town.

Also it is interesting to note that while earlier versions of the interactive map had the B Spine bypassing the M50 roundabout coming into town the new one has it taking the hospital exit and traveling around the roundabout, probably adding 3-4 minutes but increasing the possibility to serve thousands of homes and also the chances for interchange. Strange that it would be changed before the consultancy is finished.

TheChrisD Registered User
#3,221

AlanG said:
Also it is interesting to note that while earlier versions of the interactive map had the B Spine bypassing the M50 roundabout coming into town the new one has it taking the hospital exit and traveling around the roundabout, probably adding 3-4 minutes but increasing the possibility to serve thousands of homes and also the chances for interchange. Strange that it would be changed before the consultancy is finished.


Well, when you think about it it does make a bit of sense, seeing as the spine going towards Blanch has to take the M50 roundabout because that's literally the way the roads work around there - so it will allow an interchange there with passengers from the 261, keeping Clonsilla Road and Blanch Village with a better level of service and a comparably easy interchange in the correct direction.

However, I'm also seeing the B-spine to town not take the fancy bus lane out of the centre by the Crowne Plaza and the roundabout on-ramp nearby; rather it shows going via the Liberty building, across the Snugborough bridge and using the Waterville on-ramp? What's the point of that, that's going to add so much more time being stuck in that traffic versus getting on the N3 quicker

cgcsb Registered User
#3,222

The map is selling the better interchange, better orbital connectivity and, crucially, better frequency. It assumes no improvement in bus speeds because the infrastructural improvements are subject to further planning applications. In the 5 years after 2019 passengers can assume dramatic improvement in bus speeds.

Victor Registered User
#3,223

Qrt said:
Yeah the lack of services around Drimnagh and Crumlin will be pretty bad.
I disagree. To the north is the Luas line, to the south is Spine D. In the middle is route 22.

Needs another local service IMO, or route the D1 down from the hospital down to Suir Road or something (and double yellow line the whole roads)
Moving the proposed 22 from Galtymore Road to Mourne Road might rebalance things.

Access to Camden Street / Dublin 2 is available via route 0.

Muahahaha said:
Can anyone clarify if its the case that under the plan the network changes will come first and the infrastructure later?
Certain changes will have to be done before implementation, e.g. bus stops on roads that currently don't have them and the main interchanges. Additional bus lanes and revisions to bus stops can happen afterwards.

markpb said:
Maybe it's just me but Safari on iPhone *really* doesn't like whatever is on that page! Repeated page load, page resets because of multiple errors and then it crashed Safari completely.
cgcsb said:
I guess it's not mobile friendly as i cant use it at all with android. will have a look at it tomorrow
Frank Grimes said:
It's causing Opera on Windows to crash for me.
CatInABox said:
It takes a while to load in Chrome on Windows too.
MarkY91 said:
Wouldn't load for me on mobile but got it working without issues when you switch your browser to desktop mode.
Dardania said:
Interactive map works fine for me on safari on macOS. No joy on a mobile.
Note that loading the page involve a huge amount of information. Making an enquiry on the page involves a huge number of calculations.

Are these issues ongoing? Have you reported the issues?

Dardania said:
Looking at the map, i can’t seem to see how many interchanges are necessary for each situation eg how far can I get without changing in th before and after situations, in a fixed time. That would be interesting to see
What is the trip and we'll see if we can help.

Victor Registered User
#3,224

howiya said:
I can see why they were slow to release the map. 25% increase in journey time.
A large number of maps were previously released. They are here: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-full-report/ under "Isochrones - (Travel Time Maps)".

Are the timings based on best/worst case scenario?
They are based on average timing (including average wait time) during the day.

naughtb4 said:
Also is the journey time from Swords (one of the spines) to town really expected to be 60 minutes??
Note that it includes the average wait time and is based on a middle of the day trip.

cgcsb said:
My pin was very very slightly up on Blackhorse avenue, and moving it less than 10 metres seems to have made a gigantic difference.
Those 10 metres may be the difference between getting a bus or the next one.

Peregrine I can't believe I ate the whole thing
#3,225

A lot of the physical infrastructure will be done afterwards but there are things like reallocating lanes, car bans, interchanges etc. that can be done right now and will make a big difference. I got the impression they were keen on improving bus lane enforcement too. The widening of roads, CPOing gardens etc. is a major project that could take years to get through design, planning, tendering and construction.

All time estimates are based on existing infrastructure.

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