CramCycle A wholly unreasonable man
#766

The problem with the left turn on red here is quite simply people. Quite a number of road users don't give way to pedestrians at zebra crossings. They will turn on red regardless of if a pedestrian is there or not. They will stop if they have too but they will edge in close, skirt by them etc.

Something about Irish roads were car is king that many road users not only forget the basic rules of road usage, but all knowledge of human decency gets flung out the window like a teenager getting sick in a taxi but not wanting to pay the soiling charge.

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V-man Registered User
#767

Pinch Flat said:
Its seems like the red light breaking of cyclists touches a nerve with motorists - its frequently brought into these discussions. Yet the red / late amber breaking of cars is somehow glanced over.


Behind the wheel primitive instincts as territorial instinct and competition take over. A false sense of power and control. If somehow that power is taken away it feels like losing control.
Someone driving slow in front of you, a traffic jam, a cyclist breaking the red light all causes immediate anger. An anger which incidentally is contagious among drivers, which exacerbates the situation.
"Funny thing is we can switch effortlessly roles many times a day,"
"We can make us tremendously angry in a car about the behavior of a cyclist, while half an hour later we do the same on our bicycle and are furious about the motorist”

(Roughly translated from a Traffic psychologist on a Belgian website)

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HivemindXX Registered User
#768

CramCycle said:
The problem with the left turn on red here is quite simply people. Quite a number of road users don't give way to pedestrians at zebra crossings. They will turn on red regardless of if a pedestrian is there or not. They will stop if they have too but they will edge in close, skirt by them etc.


New York is not a good example since this is an exception to the general rule in the US. You can only turn right on red when specifically allowed, not by default as in most locations. Lots of pedestrians get killed crossing on green by cars too, I'm sure the motorists are sorry that they didn't see them.

Don't forget that according to some of our TDs and an increasing number of people pedestrians are practically invisible unless they are wearing high-viz at all times so I'm not sure how this system where can go through a red so long as you don't see a pedestrian crossing will work out in reality.

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AndrewJRenko Registered User
#769

Roadhawk said:
No there is a double standard. If a gard sees any driver on a phone, in a bus lane, speeding, without a seatbelt, etc. etc. they will absolutely pursue that driver and act on it and issue fine/points or whatever is warranted. The same cannot be said for cyclists committing an offense.

We've had this discussion before, but - you're dreaming. If every Garda was to act on every occurance of law-breaking that they see, they'd never get more than 10 meters from the station. 82% of motorists break the speed limit. 88% of those breaking red lights are motorists (http://kerrycyclingcampaign.org/but-all-drivers-break-the-lights/)

And the vast majority of these have no fear of enforcement, for obvious reasons.

Roadhawk said:

The drivers you mention not getting caught while breaking a speed limit is different.

I am in favour of the laws being enforced. The gardai show discretion when doing a couple of km over the limit but thats it.


'Different' you say? That wouldn't be just an excuse to get motorists off the hook, would it?

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Alanstrainor Moderator
#770

Just had another lethal one. Long narrow stretch, in Dublin. Driver beeps from afar, then again on approach and then beeps as he buzzes me at 60km/h+. I'd say there was a cm in it. Fucker actively tried to run me down. All on camera(s) front and rear including audio of the beeps.

I really don't want to get a reputation with my local station for being a serial reporter of these incidents... My local garda is going to be giving me a call about a previous incident around a month ago in the next few days. I'll mention it to him and see what he says.

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CramCycle A wholly unreasonable man
#771

Red light cameras with ANPR, no announcement, just install them randomly around the major cities. The first morning alone would pay for the installation and the next 28 days would pay for someone to work through the ton of data for the next year or two.

Then you can also work on the ridiculous Irish road traffic management of giving huge breaks between reds which are there solely to facilitate red light running.

Then you can start working on discrete ANPR on bus lanes, and free up traffic corp to look at close passes and poor cycling.

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magicbastarder Registered User
#772

CramCycle said:
Red light cameras with ANPR, no announcement, just install them randomly around the major cities.

why? the primary idea is to prevent RLJing, not necessarily catch people at it.

CramCycle A wholly unreasonable man
#773

magicbastarder said:
why? the primary idea is to prevent RLJing, not necessarily catch people at it.


And you are 100% right but IMO, this will bring high level compliance in about two months without full rollout as no one will know which lights have ANPR and which don't when the media storm of a few thousand people getting fines hits the news.

A warning before hand will just have people messing about trying to figure out where they can and can't do it, people setting up websites with known spots, people posting up where they have seen such works carried out. The benefits will be slower and not as strongly felt.

Look at the speed vans, they would have you believe Ireland has the lowest percentage of speeders in Europe.

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RacoonQueen Moderator
#774

magicbastarder said:
why? the primary idea is to prevent RLJing, not necessarily catch people at it.


Because catching people at it is what should stop it(thought that hasn't necessarily worked with phone usage). People do it because there are no repercussions. If fines start being dished out, court appearances for not paying fine etc...that will help stop it.

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Chiparus Registered User
#775

Alanstrainor said:
Just had another lethal one. Long narrow stretch, in Dublin. Driver beeps from afar, then again on approach and then beeps as he buzzes me at 60km/h+. I'd say there was a cm in it. Fucker actively tried to run me down. All on camera(s) front and rear including audio of the beeps.

I really don't want to get a reputation with my local station for being a serial reporter of these incidents... My local garda is going to be giving me a call about a previous incident around a month ago in the next few days. I'll mention it to him and see what he says.


Ask for the drivers insurance details as you are considering putting in a claim with the PIAB.

Unknown Soldier Registered User
#776

magicbastarder said:
why? the primary idea is to prevent RLJing, not necessarily catch people at it.


By catching people doing it and taking action, it prevents it.

Why there are no HD cameras on Bus lanes is beyond me. Change the legislation to the owner gets fined/points. job done!

1 person has thanked this post
magicbastarder Registered User
#777

RacoonQueen said:
Because catching people at it is what should stop it

no, it's the fear of being caught, rather than actually being caught, which stops it.

it's why you see signs warning of speed cameras. the point is to get people to slow down rather than to catch them - because catching them in a way proves you've not gotten them to slow down.

CramCycle A wholly unreasonable man
#778

magicbastarder said:
no, it's the fear of being caught, rather than actually being caught, which stops it.

it's why you see signs warning of speed cameras. the point is to get people to slow down rather than to catch them - because catching them in a way proves you've not gotten them to slow down.


Alas no, warning signs I see put people off, they know where the cameras are, they speed up until a few 100m before and then slam on, then speed up again.

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check_six Registered User
#779

Tombo2001 said:

In separate, very sad pizza related news - Steps of Rome on Chatham Street has shut down.

I believe this is called a de-rail; so I will shut up.


WHAATTTT? The Steps of Rome gone?

But, but, but,....
...enough of this cycling malarkey. We need to mount a campaign to resurrect the Steps of Rome!

This is like snecking 2016 bumping off all the celebrities. I won't stand for it!

Who's with me?

Hrududu Registered User
#780

God this thread has gone to ****. Are there not other threads about red light jumping people can argue in?

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