blue5000 Moderator
#106

Bellview said:
Reviewed mine. As usual a load of changes but the averages still work out ok... so my opinion doesnt change its still a lottery and icbf really need to get more credibility into their numbers especially where stock bulls are being used. I often wonder is the scheme a little anti the stock bull.

One of my worst cows has roared ahead to top of the charts in the herd. Only reason she has survived last 3 years is she had a bull each year..that is ranked easy Calving so she works out OK into dairy herds. While one of the best breeding cows is now gone completely in the toilet...her only daughter is also doing the business and has also jumped into the toilet also despite both having milk calving at 2 etc.

Any cow that has been genotyped will her results stay as is today or are they still subject to the lottery. Would be nice for some stability even if we dont agree with all the ratings.


That's it in a nutshell, and I agree with it being anti stock bull.

Some of you may know I run two stock bulls, an angus and an aubrac. In the August proofs the Aubrac soared ahead to 148 and the angus dropped to 112. This time it's the other way round, angus gone up 15 points and aubrac down 12, with a bit of an effect on the daughters.

Like others here the overall change in the herd isn't huge, but there are big shifts in some cow families. But I did notice cows with more ai sires behind them are more consistent. So I reckon the reason that there is an anti stock bull bias is because of reliability.

Bellview you're selling stock bulls to dairy farmers? You have no way of knowing what calves are being registered to your bull(s), maybe that's part of the problem in your herd. Some of these lads could be registering jerseys to your bull, if this is happening then your figures for conformation anyway are gone out the window.

I suppose we just have to keep at it, it's better than it was 10 years ago, ai is fairly consistent now I think, it's only a matter of time before stock bull reliability improves. It depends on us submitting accurate info, garbage in, garbage out

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patsy_mccabe Registered User
#107

I've just realised that if you are in the BDGP, you can generate a EURO-Star report any time you like, even if you are not in HerdPLus.
Just log onto ICBF, then;

/ Reports / All reports / BDGP / BDGP EURO Star / generate New Report /

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Conchurl Registered User
#108

just checked the report for my father and some of the cows went up and some went down but the one that confused me is one went from €63 3* up to €112 5*

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Bellview Registered User
#109

blue5000
Bellview you're selling stock bulls to dairy farmers? You have no way of knowing what calves are being registered to your bull(s), maybe that's part of the problem in your herd. Some of these lads could be registering jerseys to your bull, if this is happening then your figures for conformation anyway are gone out the window.



Annually I get the bull report. There are folks that are registered zero calves from bulls and I know there are calves as one of these boys is a neighbour. Ironically icbf quoted this report as proof that a lot of pedigree bulls are not breeding calf's which annoyed me with icbf no end

The key metric for the angus into dairy is calving diff and then if the bull looks OK the dairy boys generally will give him a second look.

The angus bulls in ai are going the wrong way at the moment as there are a number of terminal type sires in the studs which for beef is ok but not if we want to breed decent cows.. the latest bull by progressive trying to say a bull with double muscle has calving of less than 2 per cent is false while the other Goulding Eamon who is in the maternal program should have difficulty of over 10 per cent while icbf is showing under 5. Bulls like this will do a lot of damage to the easy calving maternal part of the breed and their diffuliculty are just wrong.

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Bellview Registered User
#110

Conchurl
just checked the report for my father and some of the cows went up and some went down but the one that confused me is one went from €63 3* up to €112 5*



Unfortunately that happens a lot. You could see reverse next update. If the genotype stopped this madness it would be great but not sure if it will as even cows genotyped still appear with relatively low reliability which gives icbf an opt out in my opinion.
All I'm hoping for is that the averages keep working out so I can qualify for payment as my bad icbf cows calves keep the show on the road with nice cattle while I tolerate a few 5 stars and never keep their daughters so I keep the herd right and still meet the rules.

Bigbird1 Registered User
#111

patsy_mccabe said:
I've just realised that if you are in the BDGP, you can generate a EURO-Star report any time you like, even if you are not in HerdPLus.
Just log onto ICBF, then;

/ Reports / All reports / BDGP / BDGP EURO Star / generate New Report /


Is icbf and herdplus not the one thing?

blue5000 Moderator
#112

I'm beginning to see why breed societies are peed off with icbf. But it happens anybody who sells cattle live. I used to sell weanling bulls. I know some of them were left out for 3 winters on bad silage/hay around a ring feeder, and the grassland management wouldn't have been too sharp either.

Same goes for weanlings that are exported, chances are they're always the best ones so neither the sires or cows benefit from carcase info.

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tanko Registered User
#113

Bigbird1 said:
Is icbf and herdplus not the one thing?


It costs €60/year to join herdplus.

KatyMac Registered User
#114

Had an accidental stock bull (weanling that was a bit more cheeky than I gave him credit for!) who put two heifers in calf. Two nice calves arrived early in October and are the proud owners of 4 stars each. I just wonder now if the powers-that-be will be demanding I replace him with like! I only realized what he managed to do several months after I sold him as the heifers weren't calling.

dodo mommy Registered User
#115

I see ICBF have run an evaluation for February wounded what that's about?

patsy_mccabe Registered User
#116

dodo mommy said:
I see ICBF have run an evaluation for February wounded what that's about?

Ya I see that. No harm either. Especially for the calving % data. Lots of new bulls from last year are only starting to have calves on the ground now. A lot of cows calf in the month of January.

I see TOMSCHOICE IRONSTONE (LM2116) had 84 births in the Jan 2017 proof but 260 in the Feb proofs.

Bellview Registered User
#117

Cows have been updated as well. Still some crazy moves..but no surprise. Some cows up 30 and another few down.

oneten Registered User
#118

What a bunch of bluffers !

annubis Registered User
#119

was in mart last week, one thing i noticed in heifer ring was the amount of heifers that had no star rating, presumably not in the scheme, it made me think alot of people mustnt have bothered with scheme, literally only a few heifers showed up with euro star ratings while i was there..

Limestone Cowboy Registered User
#120

annubis said:
was in mart last week, one thing i noticed in heifer ring was the amount of heifers that had no star rating, presumably not in the scheme, it made me think alot of people mustnt have bothered with scheme, literally only a few heifers showed up with euro star ratings while i was there..


I think you have to be signed up to herdplus for them to show on the board in Ennis.

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