Chivito550 Registered User
#1
Pudsy33 Registered User
#2

It's being covered in the general thread, but it's probably worth its own one. Imhoff and Rockokoko implicated too. If Carter, the shining light of brains over brawn rugby, is on juice then I fear for the future of the game.

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Chivito550 Registered User
#3

Pudsy33 said:
It's being covered in the general thread, but it's probably worth its own one. Imhoff and Rockokoko implicated too. If Carter, the shining light of brains over brawn rugby, is on juice then I fear for the future of the game.


I've always found it crazy that so many assume rugby is clean. Silly when you consider how much emphasis there is on power, strength and size in the professional game. I wouldn't be surprised if it was rampant.

Carter testing positive would be a disaster though.

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blackdog1 Registered User
#4

Bit strange they'd all be juicing before a final. Probably only 3 tested too and for all them to show up positive implies to me it must be some team supplement they were on.

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NIMAN Registered User
#5

It would be sad for the game of rugby if their golden boy was on steroids, but to be honest I am not surprised by any 'drugs in sport' revelation these days.

No doubt we will discover he has asthma, like every other top athlete in the world, or had a flu and took the wrong medicine.......unlikely he will come out and admit he's guilty.

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Venjur Registered User
#6

Posted this in the general thread just to give some context to the type of steroids they are accused of having taken:

Venjur said:
This is interesting. The drug family they are accused of taking is something I wouldn't have associated with Rugby players. It's more something you would hear of cyclists or runners taking as it can give a short term increase to athletic aerobic performance by allowing greater absorption of oxygen through the lungs. They can also be used to reduce swelling and treat joint problems and arthritis.

It's not my area of expertise but this drug bracket isn't for building muscle or anything like that, but it is something that people would use to boost performance before an event or potentially to reduce the impact / pain of ongoing injury or muscle / joint damage.

If the three players can't prove that they have a condition requiring this drug then they are probably in real trouble. Even if they can prove that they have a condition they haven't declared it so a ban will apply if the samples are upheld.

The greater question here though is that if they have gotten their hands on these steroids then I would find it amazing if they aren't using other out of competition steroids where the risks of detection are lower and the benefits far greater.

This could get quite big and very ugly. Carter in particular is a media train and this would derail things substantially. Could even see Racing get retrospectively disqualified.

My guess though - this gets blamed on some team Doctor who wasn't aware of which drugs are banned for being performance enhancing and was providing treatment within a sphere of misunderstanding. Statement from Racing by early next week stating the above.

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joshrogan Registered User
#7

Long exhaustive season, maybe they needed a little something to get through the last game and thought they could get away with it in Spain who's sports stars have a history of accusations of steriod abuse/cover up.

Pudsy33 Registered User
#8

NZ Herald suggesting the players in question had a TUE. Parallels to be drawn with Wiggins.

NIMAN Registered User
#9

Pudsy33 said:
NZ Herald suggesting the players in question had a TUE. Parallels to be drawn with Wiggins.


.... and there's their get-out clause....I had asthma..

Come on, you're fooling no-one.

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swiwi_ Registered User
#10

And hop. Like moths to a light a whole lot of posters never seen before appear magically in the rugby forum.

I'll eat my hat if Carter took PEDs.

There are many types of steroids and many indications.

Corticosteroids cause you to LOSE muscle bulk for example.

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#11

swiwi_ said:
And hop. Like moths to a light a whole lot of posters never seen before appear magically in the rugby forum.

I'll eat my hat if Carter took PEDs.

There are many types of steroids and many indications.

Corticosteroids cause you to LOSE muscle bulk for example.


Corticosteroids only cause you to lose muscle mass if taken repeatedly over long periods.

On the other hand, a single corticosteroid injection could allow you to play a match you would otherwise miss through injury and is very much performance-enhancing.

But I'm sure they all had TUEs in place and nothing major will come of this.

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irishbucsfan Registered User
#12

Gavin Mortimer on twitter explaining the morning papers says:

According to @lequipe on the evening of the T14 final, the French doping agency took urine samples. Paper says it was a "surprise" as it was in Barcelona but possible because of a bilateral agreement between France & Spain. The first results have shown an 'anomaly' in the samples of 3 Racing players: Dan Carter, Joe Rokocoko & Juan Imhoff revealed traces of corticosteroids. But I see it's being reported in English-language sites so that will save me the bother of translating the Lequipe report. Simon Porter, Carter's manager, quoted as saying: "We have been aware of the issue for a few weeks. Our understanding and assurances we've had are all the documents around TUEs were in place." L'equipe says from Jan 2015 to Sep 2016, the French doping agency have received 12 therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) requests in rugby seven have been accepted, three refused and two cases are still being studied. The FFR has received the French doping agency's report on the Racing trio & has 40 days to determine if the use of TUEs "was justified". Interview in @lequipe with Xavier Bigard, member of the AFLD (French doping agency). Asked about the use of corticosteroid, he says: "For a sport as physical as rugby, we're talking more about maintaining the health of the athlete rather than looking to enhance performance. When an analysis result comes back unusual, the player should not necessarily be sanctioned ." Quoting straight from @lequipe: "The 3 players didn't have the famous TUEs which could have justified, from medical pt of view, the use of these prohibited substances." Lequipe says FFR, when weighing up what action to take, will study "players' medical files, dosage of product & mode of administration".


So Carter's manager claims they had a TUE, L'Equipe claim they don't. It'll all come down to that I'm sure.

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irishgeo Registered User
#13

The Tue system is being abused. It's needs to be clamped down on.

Oddly the only sportspeople with asthma seem to be winners of something which then have a positive test.

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irishbucsfan Registered User
#14

irishgeo said:
The Tue system is being abused. It's needs to be clamped down on.

Oddly the only sportspeople with asthma seem to be winners of something which then have a positive test.


If there's only 7 TUEs granted across a league as big as the Top 14 then I don't think that's a sign of it being abused tbh, that's one player for every two teams.

#15

irishbucsfan said:


So Carter's manager claims they had a TUE, L'Equipe claim they don't. It'll all come down to that I'm sure.


The end of all this will be the discovery that actually, they had TUEs but they weren't filed properly with the correct authority. Racing will be given a fine and case closed.

In the meantime, the following will happen:

- A plethora of players, ex-players and coaches will tell us that the players involved are "not that sort of bloke".
- Loads of pundits will use this as evidence that rugby has its head in the sand on doping, can't ignore this etc. First up; Neil Francis.
- The NZ media will a) question the motivation of the people breaking the story and b) dig up as many stories as they can of French athletes with doping histories.
- Stories to emerge of how much this could cost Carter in lost endorsements.

Fun times ahead but ultimately it will all be grand.

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