Augeo Registered User
#961

Mmmmmm I'll spell it out for you......

December 2011 - 98.9 (2011 average = 99.3)
December 2012 - 100.9, (2012 average = 100)

that's not an 8.2% rise

And the graph I showed (nationwide) showed clearly falling rents across the nation in 2012, Dublin rises in 2012 negated these on the overall figures)

One has to look beyond the headlines when talking about specifics

The 2012 average of 100 seems the be the starting point ......... that does indeed indicate that the 8.2% rise wasn't seen in 2012, if it was then they'd have taken 2011 as the starting point, but it wasn't so they couldn't. HTH.

2009 to 2012 (inclusive) was the bottom of the rental market. As per your screenshot. You won't find a 2012 report bleating on about rising rents, nationwide.

1 person has thanked this post
Sleeper12 Registered User
#962

Augeo said:
Mmmmmm I'll spell it out for you......

December 2011 - 98.9
December 2012 - 100.9

that's not an 8.2% rise

And the graph I showed (nationwide) showed clearly falling rents across the nation in 2012)

One has to look beyond the headlines when talking about specifics

The 2012 average of 100 seems the be the starting point ......... that does indeed indicate that the 8.2% rise wasn't seen in 2012, if it was then they'd have taken 2011 as the starting point, but it wasn't so they couldn't. HTH.

2009 to 2012 (inclusive) was the bottom of the rental market. As per your screenshot.



It clearly states 8.2 percent year on year on average. These figures haven't been disputed since publication almost 6 years ago. Now a poster on boards disputes industry wide accepted figures, 6 years after the fact because it doesn't suit his argument.

Augeo Registered User
#963

Nowhere does it claim an 8.2% rent rise in 2012.
Where do you see an 8.2% rent rise in 2012 considering the reports implicitly details (you can work this out yourself by adding 12 numbers and dividing the total by 12)

2011 average = 99.3
2012 average = 100

Year on year, 2012, 8% rise not observed compared to 2011. Do you not understand what year on year means?

Rents went up by 8% in 2013, so the year on year rise from 2012 to 2013 is 8%. the rise didn't occur in 2012, your interpretation of the report is incorrect.

Look at the graph I screenshotted, it shows the situation clearly You can see falling rents in all but Dublin.

Augeo said:
Not according to the report ...........




Sleeper12 said:
It clearly states 8.2 percent year on year on average. These figures haven't been disputed since publication almost 6 years ago. Now a poster on boards disputes industry wide accepted figures, 6 years after the fact because it doesn't suit his argument.


The report is from 2015?

Sleeper12 Registered User
#964

Augeo said:
In 2012? Rents were falling back then, not rising.



No they wern't. Rents increased in 2012 as I said. How do I know that?

Augeo said:
Mmmmmm I'll spell it out for you......

December 2011 - 98.9 (2011 average = 99.3)
December 2012 - 100.9, (2012 average = 100)





Yes, yes using your own figures rents did actually increase in 2012 year on year.

Thank you very much

Augeo Registered User
#965

lol, you've dropped the 8% thing. Progress.
Next step you shall see the falling rents everywhere outside of Dublin

Sleeper12 said:
........ using your own figures .............


they're not my figures but seems as you like them you'll notice there was no 8% rise

2 people have thanked this post
Sleeper12 Registered User
#967

Augeo said:
lol, you've dropped the 8% thing. Progress.
Next step you shall see the falling rents everywhere outside of Dublin


they're not my figures but seems as you like them you'll notice there was no 8% rise



But increased in 2012 & not


In 2012? Rents were falling back then, not rising.



It's a good thread & it hasn't been derailed it two years So I'm happy to say we both didn't get either side quite right.

1 person has thanked this post
The_Conductor Moderator
#968

The other issue is the DAFT report- is the asking rates for new tenancies.

1. It is asking prices for *new* tenancies
2. Its not guaranteed that those asking prices were achieved
3. The same report (collaborated by the RTB) shows the average tenancy lengthening to 34 months (a tad under 3 years)- which is a monumental change on even 3-4 years ago.

You can't say rents went up by 8.8% annually in 2017- you have to qualify that the asking price for new tenancies increased by 8.8% in 2017-- and that the average tenancy is now for almost 3 years- so while technically its accurate- its also hiding a multitude of sins- and is extremely misleading- unless you qualify what you are claiming..........

Supplyside issues- need to further ease- and drastically. Dublin is only moderating- because wages have not had a snowballs chance in hell of supporting the continued increases in rates for new tenancies- however given that most sectors don't pay a Dublin premium- its inevitable that the result is general misery for the workforce- who are now on average travelling for 42 minutes longer a day- than they were in 2013 (according to the Dublin Chamber of Commerce).

We critically need a massive rampup in affordable housing in the greater Dublin area- current policies- including those addressing the homeless issue- are myopic and are ignoring the elephant in the corner- which is the increasing misery being experienced by our workforce.

3 people have thanked this post
Jamsiek Registered User
#969

nox001 said:
Why should an owner be forced to rent long term.

They shouldn't be "forced" but in many places there are extra taxes for leaving your house empty and now licensing and extra taxes if you want to let your place for less than 30 days.

nox001 said:
It’s not private house owners job to house people, their job is to make the most money they can with the least risk.

It's not the owners "job" but the government needs to make it more attractive to do so.

nox001 said:
The government should not be interfering in LLs who want to let their properties on Airbnb.

Nonsense. In many places cities are forcing Airbnb owners to license their properties and coming down hard on them if they don't comply.
This needs to happen especially in places where there are housing shortages. Otherwise we would have ghost towns everywhere for much of the year.

A house should be primarily about living in, everything else should be secondary. The government's first responsibility should be to the citizens.

TSQ Registered User
#970

Sleeper12 said:
It clearly states 8.2 percent year on year on average. These figures haven't been disputed since publication almost 6 years ago. Now a poster on boards disputes industry wide accepted figures, 6 years after the fact because it doesn't suit his argument.


Well, lies, damn lies, and statistics.... I was looking to buy and viewed quite a few central Dublin properties in 2012-2013. If tenants were present I always asked then what rent they were paying. On a number of occasions tenants said they had been paying a higher rent but had negotiated a reduction in the past year. Not one person told me the rent had increased.

Sleeper12 Registered User
#971

TSQ
Well, lies, damn lies, and statistics.... I was looking to buy and viewed quite a few central Dublin properties in 2012-2013. If tenants were present I always asked then what rent they were paying. On a number of occasions tenants said they had been paying a higher rent but had negotiated a reduction in the past year. Not one person told me the rent had increased.



If you read back you will see that I read the daft report incorrectly. Rents did increase year on the but not 8.2 percent. Although the report didn't go in detail you could have had certain areas with a 5 or 10 percent increase & other with a 5 or 10 percent decrease to balance this out. Rents did increase in 2012. Not by 8.2 percent though

4ensic15 Registered User
#972

TSQ said:
Well, lies, damn lies, and statistics.... I was looking to buy and viewed quite a few central Dublin properties in 2012-2013. If tenants were present I always asked then what rent they were paying. On a number of occasions tenants said they had been paying a higher rent but had negotiated a reduction in the past year. Not one person told me the rent had increased.


That wouldn't give any indication as to whether or not rents had increased. You were not looking at properties where anyone had recently moved in. A landlord intending to sell wouldn't be increasing the rent before going on the market. As for reductions they would have been agreed because the market had previously fallen and the landlord didn't want the hassle and expense of re-letting the property which they were going to sell any way.

GGTrek Registered User
#973

Topgear
Sleeper12 said:
Had they put the billion plus wasted on Irish water in 5 or 6 years ago we might not have any housing shortage at all by now.




Just for fun I googled news from 2012 and this came up first.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-than-50-000-irish-emigrated-during-2012-1.1509489

"The number of people emigrating from Ireland continues to rise as 89,000 people left the State in the year to April, an increase of 2.2 per cent on the previous 12 months.

Figures published today by the Central Statistics Office show 50,900 Irish people emigrated in the period, up from 46,500 last year.

This brings the total number of Irish people who have emigrated since 2008 to 200,600."



Nobody cared about housing back then, and nobody has a crystal ball to see the future.

I remember very well that time because I bought at that time. Landlords were going bust and the govvie was as usual screwing landlords with all extra taxes USC, Property tax, increased income tax, tax reliefs cuts on mortgage interest, high building standards, new tenant reg standards (that caused the shutting down of most bedsits), most landlords could not sustain it because they had high leverage and no capital. The tenants are now screaming, well I remember well they could not care less at the time, both tenants and the govvie had the childish belief that rent could stay low long term with a massive increase in costs to landlords caused by your very own Irish govvie which in addition through absurd building and rental regulations further restricted the building of residential property.

3 people have thanked this post
Maryanne84 Registered User
#974

12,000 AirBnB hosts. Imagine if even 10% were houses/apartments suitable for families. That would go some way towards easing the housing situation. (I’m allowing 4 people per homeless family for ease) Almost half the “homeless” sorted.

1 person has thanked this post
nox001 Registered User
#975

Maryanne84 said:
12,000 AirBnB hosts. Imagine if even 10% were houses/apartments suitable for families. That would go some way towards easing the housing situation. (I’m allowing 4 people per homeless family for ease) Almost half the “homeless” sorted.


You can’t make a statement like that as it’s simply nonsense. For a start most of the Airbnb apartments will be high quality lets which would be unaffordable or wouldn’t be let to those on welfare.

Want to share your thoughts?

Login here to discuss!