Grizzly 45 Registered User
#2

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2014.WG.Report.pdf/Files/2014.WG.Report.pdf

Department of Justice and Equality /
An Garda Síochána
Working Group on Review of Firearms
Licensing November 2014


It s time to get political!!!

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yubabill1 Registered User
#3

The report refers to the Garda Commissioner as "he" in several places.

"he" didn't exactly leave in a blaze of glory.

The whole proposal seems to hinge on holders of certain firearms being a concern to public safety.

I don't see anything about compensation for private property, but it does mention surrender of firearms to Gardaí.

Haven't read the full thing yet, but smack very much of divide and conquer.

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yubabill1 Registered User
#4

Sorry to harp on, but the whole following section says to me:

"We hoped the 1800 handgun owners would give them up, but since 1076 + 590 handguns are still licensed, that didn't work, so we need this new legislation we reserved for ourselves in 2009"


During 2012 and 2013, the Gardaí have reported to DOJE on public safety
concerns connected to certain firearms. In the initial report of the Garda
Commissioner, recommendations were put forward in relation to short
firearms. In this report, reference is made to the then Minister for Justice in
November 2008 proposing that he will “keep under review….the outcome of
the licensing procedure and, if the outcome of that procedure leaves a
situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community, will use new
powers which the Bill will contain to ban outright any type of firearm”.
Following on from the commitment made in 2008, the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 Act included Section 27, inserting a new
Section 2C into the 1925 Act. This provided that the Minister may, in the
interests of public safety and security, by order declare specified firearms to
be prohibited.
The Garda Commissioner has recommended to the Secretary General of the
Department a prohibition on the licensing of certain handguns. An Garda
Síochána have also recommended in the interests of public safety that semiautomatic
centre-fire rifles and semi-automatic shotguns (capable of holding
more than 3 rounds) are firearms that should no longer be licensable in the
State.
Statistical information from An Garda Síochána states that as of the 28th of
March 2014 the total number of non restricted handguns licensed was 1,076
and the total number of restricted handguns licensed was 590.

Tea drinker Registered User
#5

yeah I heard on the radio this evening some working group has come out with a recommendation to ban handuns and only allow specicly Olympic pistols. Also under attack are semi auto shotties, semi auto rifles.

I reckon there's something for everyone there and those who foolishly thought the problems were only going to remain on the pistol side are shown for naivety and self interest.
So I think that adequately explains missing Annex etc. remember, if they change something in Ireland it's
a) bad
b) going to cost you money

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Vegeta Moderator
#6

Ouch

LikeTheseOdds Registered User
#7

Wow. I'm just after reading the Draft head 4 & 5 notes. This is absolutely shocking. These Drafts essentially ban centerfires once their current renewal cycle is up. .22 pistols that arn't on a new "White list". Explains why the old one was removed... Also stats that a process would be in place to allow people to make additions to the list. Bans renewal of semi auto centre fire rifles + shotguns manufactured to hold more than 3 round. Not to mention that their is proposals in there for blanket bans. I'm only a couple of years in the sport now and this is really disheartening for the future of the sport .

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Strider Registered User
#8

Just got my own .22 pistol licence recently too, probably one of the last ever issued here I'll enjoy it while I have it anyway

BattleCorp Registered User
#9

I actually did my best to read it all and it's not good reading for us.

Apart from the proposed bans, some of the other stuff in it makes things even more murky than before.

An individual Super can refuse a licence based on the crime in their district and on the amount of licences issued. They use the word 'proliferation'. Crazy stuff.

That'll lead to an even greater postcode lottery than at present.

If the Gardai get this through, it will decimate pistol shooting.

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yubabill1 Registered User
#10

Tea drinker said:
yeah I heard on the radio this evening some working group has come out with a recommendation to ban handuns and only allow specicly Olympic pistols. Also under attack are semi auto shotties, semi auto rifles.

I reckon there's something for everyone there and those who foolishly thought the problems were only going to remain on the pistol side are shown for naivety and self interest.
So I think that adequately explains missing Annex etc. remember, if they change something in Ireland it's
a) bad
b) going to cost you money


We really have to stick together on this one.

These are only recommendations.

Some of the recommendations are put there to provoke concern and be repealed - e.g. every semi/pump shotgun is mentioned - they are hoping to divide shooters.

See a lot of stuff in the report that's been in thejournal.ie and other media recently - followed by radio reports today.

The sophisticated media management tells me there is political will behind this.

Fulminating, spewing brimstone, claiming victimhood will not work here.

Reasoned argument only, please - even if it's not fully-formed.

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Tea drinker Registered User
#11

yubabill1 said:
We really have to stick together on this one.

These are only recommendations.

Some of the recommendations are put there to provoke concern and be repealed - e.g. every semi/pump shotgun is mentioned - they are hoping to divide shooters.

See a lot of stuff in the report that's been in thejournal.ie and other media recently - followed by radio reports today.

The sophisticated media management tells me there is political will behind this.

Fulminating, spewing brimstone, claiming victimhood will not work here.

Reasoned argument only, please - even if it's not fully-formed.

Well, yes these are the recommendations, the point being most likely to settle for less restrictive regs at some point. Inevitably the point of this exercise is to make it more restrictive for as many groups as possible this time. Further restrictions will be brought in at a later date, it makes sense to me.

So yeah either we all stick together and defend our legitimate shooting interests or we will all get caught in the long grass.

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Vegeta Moderator
#12

So how do we tackle this maturely?

No point in whining, bitching or shouting n pointing out that firearms in the hands of criminals is a failure of AGS, nothing to do with private ownership. Or that an under pressure force is deflecting on to us.

If there are concerns over crime stats we need to objectively point out examples of how there is no causation between private ownership and our murder rates. Hand gun ownership per capita in Northern Ireland is similar if not higher to here I imagine, are the hand gun murder rates the same?

What about the UK, these firearms are banned there, I'm guessing there are still gangland murders with handguns?

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yubabill1 Registered User
#13

Vegeta, just been reading the Mansfield judgement and it seems that many answers RE: public safety etc are addressed in these documents.

What worries me more is that we won't be afforded a voice in this debate - they've stolen a march on us already; the sophisticated media management machine is under full steam.

We need an organised, coherent and penetrating argument.

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Heckler Registered User
#14

Just when I thought thing were getting better with appeals being granted they come out with this. This is bad news.

This "designed for olympic competition" ruse is a joke. Its like telling someone with an interest in cycling they can only use an ultra expensive olympic standard bicycle.

As if every shooter has and should have an interest and ultimate goal in being an olympic competitor. Utter nonsense.

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yubabill1 Registered User
#15

Vegeta said:
So how do we tackle this maturely?


What about the UK, these firearms are banned there, I'm guessing there are still gangland murders with handguns?


I believe there is an explosion of knife crime over there.

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