While we are talking about the long knives, it is worth exploring the name of this weapon:
So the wiki says it is an old German root *sah,*sag-"to cut and then quickly adds that it all comes from the PIE root sek.
Interestingly enough wiki completely misses to mention Gaelic as a language that has anything to do with Seax or verb sek.
I will now try to fix this and try to expand this etymology with a very interesting word cluster which I found in south Slavic languages and in Irish.
I will start with this citation from a medieval French manuscript:
The Irish long knife is called Scean or Scian. What is interesting about this word is that it is just one of a cluster of Irish words with the root sc which all somehow relate to blades, making blades, using blades and consequences of using blades. I will here just list few representative ones; you can consult the dictionary for more:
S(e)ceallog– chip, thin slice
S(e)cealla– shale, flake
S(e)cablail– chisel work
S(e)caineach– thin, cracked
S(e)cean,s(e)cian (pronounced shkian) – knife
S(e)cean– crack, split, sever
Now these words, I believe, have potentially root in a stone age. When you look at them they basically describe making of a stone blade from a stone. You get a shingly stone, slate, you chip it, split it until you get a sharp blade. Husks and chips fall off in the process. Then you can use it to cut, split and sever…
From the analysis of the word development from Ogham Irish to modern Irish, we see that the language has lost a lot of vowels. To the above words could have had a vowel between Sc root and this is why I inserted the alternative “(e)” which doesn’t exist in modern Gaelic. We also see insertion of vowels in the south Slavic languages as the words traveled from the Baltic to the Balkans in the early medieval time. In some dialects of the south Slavic languages you can still find the original vowless versions of the words. So I am not sure about the above vowel insertion. Also you will see in related south Slavic words that we find both sk and sek roots.
Here is the corresponding south Slavic word cluster. You will notice that it is a lot bigger and wider than the Irish one, but it covers the same word range needed to describe making of a stone blade from as tone as well as all the metal blades and their usage. The fact that in the south Slavic languages we find all the words connected with the stone blades as well as the metal blades with the same root shouldn't surprise us. It was the Balkans, more precisely within the territory of today’s Serbia that metal blades were produced for the first time in copper, bronze and iron. It is fitting to presume that whoever made these metal blades used the same word s(e)k as the root word for both stone and metal blades. If this is so, what does this tell us about the age of these words?
Školjka– shell. Shells are sharp and could have been what gave people idea to create first blades
Skriljac– slate. This stone can be easily chipped and was used for weapon blades.
Skresati– from kresati. Kresati means to hit one thing with another, so that the hitting thing slides of the side of the thing being hit. The word is used to describe hitting a stone with a stone to chip them or to make fire and for cutting branches of a log, basically to chip or to trim. Skresati means to actually chip a bit of or to cut a brunch off, to separate bits.
Skalja– small thin chips of stone or wood
Sek(sometimes pronounced as sik or sk)– root word meaning to cut but also a blade. Word seći(to cut) comes from sekti.
Sečivo(pronounced sechivo) – blade
Sekira(sikira, skira) – axe
Sekare(škare pronounces shkare) – scissors
Sekia(sekian) – knife. This word is now preserved in Bosnian slang word for knife “ćakija” (sekia). This word can also be deduced from a word škia (pronounced shkia) which is a dinaric dialect word which means a thin hand sliced tobacco.
Sekač.– a one sided blade
Skiljiti– to squint, to make your eyes look like as if they were two cuts.
Skija– a blade on a sled, and later a ski.
Sekutić – front tooth
Usek,zasek – a cut
Sek– a log house where logs, which are also called sek, are connected by interlocking cuts made at their ends.
Seknuti– to strike or hit suddenly
Skratiti– to cut down to cut short
Skrvaviti– to make bloody
Skloca– foldup knife
Škljocati- to make a noise by closing something sharp like teeth or scissors.
Škrgutati– to grind teeth
Škopiti– to castrate, to cut balls off.
Skulj– a castrated ram
Škrip– a cut, a narrow space
This word cluster is possibly based on an onomatopoeic root “sk” which potentially makes it very old. The sound which a blade makes when pulled across something in order to cut it is “sssssssk”. When you cut something off with a sudden hit of blade sound shortens to tsk or tsak. I will leave this here and hopefully someone else will pick it up and cover it in more detail.
What I find is very very interesting is word for scissors. Scissors are a complicated implement and who ever made them first gave them the name that stuck among the people who used them first, which probably related people who were living close together.
In Russian and all central and east Slavic languages (including Bulgarian and Macedonian) it is a form of word nožnice.
In Scandinavian languages it is some form of saks.
In French English and Irish it is ciseaux, scissors, siosúr.
In Greek and Latin it is ψαλίδιand axicia
In Italian it is forbici.
But in Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian, Dutch, German and Latvian it is škare,schaar, schere, š??res…So what is the connection between these people? Is south Baltic the link again, more precisely Elbe valley?
We know that the root word is sekare which comes from south Slavic sek root. Because when we have a look at the word for cut and blade in all these languages we get this:
German - geschnitten (is this actually sekniten)
Dutch– snijden (this is probably from the above root sekniten)
Serbian,Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian – Seći(Sekti)
German– Schneide (Sekniede?), Klinge
As part of this analysis I have to mention one more word: to slaughter,to kill a living thing using a sharp blade. We need to investigate this word because after all, blades are made for slaughter more than anything else.
In south Slavic languages a word for to slaughter or related to slaughter are:
Klati– to slaughter
Klan– being slaughtered
Koljač– the one that slaughters
Saklan(zaklan) – slaughtered
Kljakav– someone who is missing a limb due to its being cut off.
Kljuse– a horse which is too old to be useful and which needs to be slaughtered, killed (kolje se)
Kljusav– ready to be slaughtered, killed
Koljivo– a ceremonial meal made from cooked wheat eaten at Serbian “Slava”celebration. Slava is today a family patron saint day celebration,but originally it was a clan ancestral cult celebration. Each family had its own deity as a clan progenitor, and that deity was celebrated as the father of the clan. Originally human sacrifices were made even down to medieval times and maybe even later. In case of Dabog or Hromi Daba, the main deity of all Serbian clans, even first born children were sacrificed. Animals such as lambs, goats and bulls were also sacrificed and are still to this day. Animal sacrifices and particularly human sacrifices sharply distinguished Serbs and other western Slavs from eastern Slavs. During slavisation of the Serbs,blood sacrifices were replaced with cooked wheat but the name remained: koljivo (what was slaughtered as a sacrifice).
Word klati is an onomatopoeic word based on the root “kl” which potentially makes it very old as well.
“kl”or “gl” is, I believe, one of the oldest word roots which is related to things coming out of a throat. It is particularly a sound of choking of gasping for air while something liquid is filling your throat and lungs, like blood when an animal or a person is being slaughtered. If you have ever slaughtered anything you will not easily forget that sound. The sound is kljkljklj….
In south Slavic languages we have this word
Kuljati– to gush, as in puking or bleeding when a throat is slit, or bleeding when a body is sliced open with a blade, or a head crushed with an axe blow.
kljukati - continuously stuff something down someones throat.
It is interesting how much this klati sound like kill. In wiktionary we find this as etymology of kill:
I think these words are related, but I will leave this to others to investigate further.
Now we also have word klanac which means a gorge, a deep narrow valley out of which a river flows. These valleys are deep cuts in hills and mountains which look as if they were made by a gods using giant blade. Out of these earth wounds, water, the blood of the earth gushes out.
This is incredible descriptive naming of geological formations, as klanac does also resemble a deep cut made by a blade in a flesh, especially in a neck while slaughtering out of which blood starts gushing out.If you have ever slaughtered anything or anyone you will know what I am talking about.
So klanac is a place where mother earth has been slaughtered. How old could this word possible be?
Now in Gaelic we have this word: Glen. The word is Goidelic : gleann in Scottish and Irish Gaelic, glion in Manx.In Manx,glan is also to be found meaning glen. It is cognate with Welsh glynl.
Wiktionary says that it means: A secluded and narrow valley;a dale;a depression between hills.
we also have word claon: inclining, squint, oblique, Irish claon,Old Irish clóin:*kloino-;Latincli@-no,accli@-nis,leaning, English incline;Greek@Gklínw(@Gilong),incline; English lean;Lithuanian szlë/ti,incline; Sanskrit çrayati(do.).
So here we have a link between to slaughter, to cut a slit, to squint,klanac (glen, gorge)…
Also it is interesting that in Germanic languages the word for slaughter has the same root (s-kl) as in south Slavic languages (Schlachten,s(e)klahten), but in east Slavic and central Slavic languages it is based on the root “rez” which also means to cut in Slavic languages. This again shows the affinity of south Slavic languages with Germanic languages. This also shows that south Slavic languages kept their old word for cut (sek) and also absorbed the new Slavic word (rez).
The title of this post was Long beards, long ears, long blades and long spears. We have seen long beards, long blades and long spears. What about long ears? Let’s go back to Labraid Loingsech.
This is a very interesting story and quite unusual. Let’s see if we can find similar legends anywhere else:
2. Tarkasnawa (luw."ass") - also known as the false reading Tarkondemos-was a king of the Hittite vassal state Mira in the west of present-day Turkey. He probably reigned in the time of the Great King Tudhalija IV in the 13 th Century BC
3. The Goat's Ears of the Emperor Trojan (Serbia).
4. The King with the Horse's Ears (Ireland), Laigin story about Labhradh Loingseach.
5. March's Ears (Wales). This story comes from Ll?n peninsula. Now this is the same Lleynw hose name is thought to be of Irish origin, and to have the same root –Laigin (Laighin) in Irish –as the word Leinster and which also occurs in Porth Dinllaen on the north coast and which was a Laigin colony in wales.
6. In pre-Islamic legend of Central Asia, the king of the Ossounes of the Yenisei basin had donkey's ears. He would hide them, and order each of his barbers killed to hide his secret. The last barber among his people was counselled to whisper the heavy secret into a well after sundown, but he didn't cover the well afterwards. The well water rose and flooded the kingdom, creating the waters ofLakeIssyk-Kul. (Based on available data the bronze age civilsation thatexisted here dates to 2500 years ago.)
Lets see what we can find about these stories and see if we can propose some chronology and direction of spreading of this unusual myth:
Let’s see what we can find about king Midas:
Now when we look at who Mushki are we get this:
This is very interesting about the Georgian Mushki. Some scholars are crediting these Mushki with the invention of Iron. This fits perfectly with the expansion of the Iron age people from the Balkans who under the name Mushki spread around the world conquering countries all the way to central Asia.
Now this is very interesting. King Mita (still a very common name in the Balkans among the south Slavs and Bulgarians also found in form Mitar and Mitra) was the leader of Muški Mushki an Iron Age people of Anatolia…I couldn’t find any proposed etymology of Muški,so I will propose my own: in Serbian and other Slavic languages, word for man is muž. But muž can also mean husband and lord. Word for manly is Muški,but Muški can also mean men, or lords…when we look at the time of his reign,we see that it falls into 8th century BC well after the iron was invented in the Balkans. So was Mita leading the Mushki (men) from Balkans? He was the king of Phrygians. Is there any indication that these Phrygian Mushki could be from the Balkans? There is:
So if Phrygians came from the north Balkans, then possibly the Serbian story about King Trajan and his goat ears could be the original myth from which all the other ones have been developed. The story about king Trajan comes from the area of the Djerdap gorge, the biggest gorge in Europe, the place where mighty Danube, managed to burst through Carpathian mountains and thus empty the ancient Pannonian sea.
Thus Danube was a sea and a river, the ancient Oceanos potamos of the old Gaia. The Djerdap gorge is the place where we find the most advanced Mesolithic civilization,Lepenski Vir.
This is also the area where we later find Vinca civilization which invented Copper and Bronze 7000 years ago. Just to the south is Hisar, where first iron and industrial iron production sites were found that date to 1400 BC, much earlier than the Hittite finds. We know that the Vinca copper culture spread from the Balkans to Anatolia. I believe that so far still unidentified(proto Illyrian) Iron culture also spread from the Balkans to Anatolia. And they took with them their story about king Trajan and his long Ears. I know that some people will argue that the story is originally Phrygian and that it originates in Anatolia. I would like to ask then, how is it possible that such an obscure story be adopted by the Irish, Serbs and Ossounes,but no one else in between, particularly in greco roman Europe??? Do the Irish and the Serbs have weird taste for legends, and have somehow picked this weird story and made it an obligatory material for the around the fire story telling time, until it became a folk legend?It makes no sense. The only logical explanation is that the story spread from the Carpathian region of Serbia. And then fallowed the Frigians. Now who were these Phrygians? This is what etymology dictionary says:
Is it possible that original Phrygia was not in Asia Minor, but in the north east Balkans, and that the name was brought to Asia Minor during the Phrygian Migrations? This happens all the time. Migrants give their new countries and towns the names from the “old country”. Is it possible that there are many Phrygias? Like Friesland,the area from Jutland to the west, from which our friends Laigin came from? Or this mysterious Island also called Frisland:
Is this Frisland island actually Ireland of the Laigin?
Frisland was shown as a roughly rectangular island with three triangular promontories on its western coast.
Here is the picture of Frisland island:
Here is map of Ireland:
Do you see anything similar?Interesting in any case...
Now in England and Ireland we find Brigantes.
Is it possible that Phrygians, Frisians and Brigantes are the same People? I mean how many people are called anything similar? And isn't is interesting that it is exactly these pople that have preserved the story of the king with long ears, which originally came from the old Phrygia in the Balkans?
And what could the name of this nation mean? Is it possible that Phrygians were actually Brigians? In one of the south Slavic dialects the word for a man made hill is Brig. Do you remember the kingdom of Brega, the kingdom of tumuluses in Ireland? Do you remember Tabor Breg, the main tumulus center of Ireland? Are Brigi actually Bregi? Are Brigantes actually Bregantes?Are Phrigians actually Brigians actually Bregians people of the Breg, Tumulus?
By the way the name Trajan is still used in eastern Serbia as a personal name. And the story about king Trajan's ears is not the only story about king Trajan. There is another one in which the king Trojan, the king of some old city located somewhere in Serbia, goes every night across river Danube, where he visits his mistress. But he has to make sure to return back before the sunrises, or else he will melt.
We find very similar legend in Russia about the Slavic god Hors:
Lets see if we can find out what name Trajan means. We can find the answer in Irish:
Here is another interesting word cluster from Irish language:
tré- triad - trojstvo
tréad - flock, heard, congregation - stado,pastva
tréadach - pastoral - cobanski, nomadski
tréadai -shepard, pastor - cobanin, pastor
tréadaioch - hearding -skupljati uterivati stado
treabhcas - tribe - pleme
treabhann -tribune, leader - tribun, lider, bodja
treablaht - household,family - domacinstvo, porodica
treabh - plough - plug
treibh -house, homestead, tribe, race - kuca, domacinstvo, pleme, rasa
trea- spear - koplje
trean - warior- ratnik. So Trean or Trajan is awarrior.
treas- battle - bitka
treasair - conquer - osvojiti
treis - strong,in power - jak, na vlasti
triath - lord, prince - gospodar, princ
This is an incredibly important cluster. I have never seen any other word group that describes iron age society in a better way. And it shows us that Trean or Trojan means warrior. So Is Trea Treas, or Troja, Troas the land of warriors? And if so was the original Troja in the Balkans in the second millennium BC and that Troas in Anatolia is the second Troja ? I think that there are things that point to exactly that.
We know that Hittites, Phrygians and ancient people of the iron age Balkans built tumuluses. Serbian historian Pesic, who first proposed the idea of the Vinca script, and Russian paleography experts have discovered an ancient monogram in Vinca material which was also found in Sarmatian material. The monogram was identified as the symbol of an ancient Pelasgian deity Domatrios, the oldest male deity of Europe. (I would be very grateful to anyone for more material on Domatrios, as i could not find anything on the net). Pesic says that that the meaning of the name of this deity is unclear…
Let’s go back to Irish and see if it can help:
dumha– tumulus. In Slavic languages dumati means to think but also to hold meetings. In Russian duma is parliament, and we know from Irish legends, that parliaments were held on top of tumuluses.
domatrios= duma triath (tré= lord (triad, trinity) of the tumulus…
This brigns us straight back to Ireland and deity Crom Dubh whose one of the names is the head of the mound (tumulus) or lord of the mound(tumulus). And here is the head which is said to represent Crom Dubh.It is the trefaced stone idol of Triglav:
By the way there are several mountains in the Balkans named Trojan. Is it because Trojan was the same as Triglav?
There is also a folk dance in Serbia called trojanac.
One last thing. The area of the eastern Serbia from which the story of king Trajan's long ears is called Tribalian planes.
Welcome to the rabbit hole…
While we are talking about same people appearing in multiple places at different times, and while we are talking about Mushki (Or Bregi), here is another tribe which seems to be fallowing them around all the way to Ireland: Iberians or Iverians or Iverni.
In his book "The origin of the Irish race" Mallory expressed skepticism regarding the book if invasions and as an example of how fanciful it is it quoted the part which tells us how the Nemedians sailed from the Caspian Sea all the way to Ireland. Mallory says that this being impossible, the chapter is and example of a later construction which was composed to link the Irish to Scythians and ultimately Christianity. In my opinion this exact chapter certifies that the book of Invasions was compiled from actual old histories. It was later doctored to suit changing ethnic, political and religious needs, but the original material was not an invention but a true description of events that actually happened.
It is very easy to sale from Caspian Sea to Ireland. You have to use the old Volga trading route up to the Baltic and then from the Baltic sea you follow the old Atlantean trading route down to Ireland and further down to Iberian peninsula. The old Caspian Sea - Baltic sea - Ireland trading route was last used by Varangians in the medieval time. I find it very interesting that in Gaelic texts there are so many references to Varangians, which according to the official history should never have set foot in Ireland...
Here you have a text about the Volga trade route:
What i find very interesting is that along this trade route we find Iberians in Spain, Iverni or Iberni in Ireland and Iberians at the other end of the trade route in the area between the Black and Caspian sea.
So the at the beginning of the the Caspian - Atlantic trade rout we find Iberians ruled by Mushki. And Georgian old chronicles talk about both Atlantean Iberians and Caspian Iberians being of the same origin.
Now this Caspian Iberian culture is said to be most likely a mix of indigenous culture and (Indo) European culture.
So where is this Arian land from which the future rulers of Iberians came and who were they? I propose Balkans and the Vincans during the copper and bronze age of the fourth and third millennium BC. Then Mushki the Iron age Balkan people during the early part of the first millennium BC.
The Caspian Iberians are linked to Kura–Araxes culture.
So we see that Kura-Araxes culture traded along the same Volga trading route and along other rivers in the area. This suggests that they used boats for transport. They also traded with Mesopotamia and Asia minor both areas where we find Vinca culture inspired new civilizations at the same time.
Also the burrial practices are showing us that the population was mixed and that the elite was burried in Curgans (tumuluses, bregs) the same like all the other cultures somehow related to Ireland and the Balkans. But this is the most interesting: "substantial kurgan burials were in some cases surrounded by cromlechs"
What is a Cromlech?
Now half way between Iberia in the east and Iberia in the west we find Mecklenburg-Vorpommern or as it was once known as Pomerania or Pomorje, the land of Slavic sea pirates and possible land of Fomori. And what do we find there?
What happened in Pomerania? Is this the place where Vinca culture spreading from the Balkans northwards met Megalitic Atlantean culture? One other thing is very interesting. If we look at who built these megaliths in Pomerania, we see that they were built by funnel beaker people.
Where was the center of this megalith culture which introduced farming and husbandry? It was in the area between Elbe and Vistula, in Pomeranija, the land of Pomori or Fomori. These funnel beaker people descend from Stroke-ornamented ware people who we already mentioned as the guys who first built rondel enclosures or henges.
One very interesting thing about funnel beaker people is that they probably introduced the milk tolerance gene into European population. The distribution of this gene corresponds with the distribution of the funnel beaker culture. But genetically (from the point of view of the male chromosome) this area is very diverse. Actually milk tolerance corresponds most closely with the distribution of the R1b chromosome. Is the R1b the carrier of the Atlantean Megalith culture and and if so where and how did it land in Europe, considering its distribution from west to east? Did it arrive from Caspian Iberia on boats that sailed up Volga river, along the south Baltic coast, and then landed in Ireland Iberia and finally ended up in Atlantic Iberia? Or was the other way round?
Now what is very interesting is the culture that comes after the funnel beaker culture and which is a continuation of the funnel beaker culture: the Corded Ware culture. If we have a look at the spread of the Corded Ware culture, we see that it corresponds with the distribution of Baltic Slavic and Germanic languages. It also corresponds with the distribution of the R1a Y chromosome as well I2 chromosome in Europe.
It also corresponds with the territory between river Elbe and river Volga the western most and eastern most edges of the Baltic - Caspian trade route. This is the territory which represents the mixing ground between I2 and R1a and, i believe, the birth place of the (Indo) Europeans. If we look at the distribution of the I2 chromosome, we see that both I2a and I2b have spikes around Volga river. Is this because of the ancient Volga trade route? I think so.
If we look at the I2a and I2b distribution in Europe we clearly see that the Balkan Baltic region jumps out as the homeland of the I2. This is the exact place where we later find the Celts, and south western Slavs, Germanics and Balts. The same people the same place the same genes, the same language...
Now the last but not the least. Our Mushki who came from the Balkans never appear in Hittite records as a separate nation. Is it because Hitties new that Mushi means men, solders, lords and is not a name for a tribe? Were Mushki just Hittite solders? If we look at the distribution of the Balkan I2a Y chromosome we see that it closely corresponds with the borders of the old Hittite empire and even better with the borders of the Asyrian empire and Sumeran empire. Is this a coincidence? I don't think so. We know that the Vinca type artifacts started appearing in Mesopotamia in the mid 4th millennium BC, right after Vincans decided to go and conquer the world. They brought with them their genes, their culture and their shoes. The clue is in the shoe.
Dublinviking, I sure hope you are saving this material somewhere else or in some other format, as well as here.
It would be a shame if your research got lost in cyberspace. These things happen.
thanks for your concern. I am. I was burnt once before.
Speaking about the Mushki and the link between the Serbs, the Irish and the Georgians i came across this article today which says that based on the frequency of the oldest genetic marker HG2 (no idea what that is so would be grateful if someone would explain it to me and the others), Serbs are more related to the Irish, Scandinavians and the Georgians than to the rest of the Slavs.
Here is the article in Serbian:
According to the article Serbs have the most of this HG2 (what ever it is) and here is the concentration and the spreading path diagram. It shows that the gene has originated in Serbia and has then spread towards Georgia and towards Scandinavia and Ireland...
It talks about some research done by Graham Coop. I believe this is the correct article about the results of the research:
Serb, Sarb, Sirb. All different writing and pronunciation of of the same name for the mountain people of Central Europe.
Here is a peculiar dance from Romania called Sirbian (Serbian) dance. What does it remind you of?
Have a look at this. When I was I kid I remember seeing an old wooden cross standing in the middle of a field just outside my dad’s village. It was at the edge of the village land, the same like in Ireland and other Celtic lands where holly land is the land that separates tribes. It was a place where village "slava" or the ancestral celebration was celebrated every year. It was always covered in flowers and people used to bring food and drink to it and light candles in front of it. This is still a living tradition in Serbia...
Imagine my surprise when later in life i discovered "celtic" crosses...
So for me going to Ireland was like going to my second home in a way...
You will not find any mention of this in any Serbian history books. No one cares. As if these people and their culture doesn't exist. The only work ever written on this is an obscure little book written by a local school teacher come historian.
By the way the same culture exists in the east Baltic, the land of Pruteni (Prussians). I am about to talk about this if I ever get a chance....
Also did you know that the first "Celtic" crosses came to Ireland from England and were based on earlier wooden crosses and that the oldest wooden "celtic" cross was found in Viking dublin?
The same area of Serbia has a peculiar grammatical construct. They use "na" to express belonging:
Q: "na koga je ovo kuče" (of or on whom is this hound) whose hound is this? This implies belonging or owning being equaled to having the thing in question on one person. This construct is used only for material goods and animals and not for members of the family. This construct is ancient and comes from the time when everything you owned was on you.
A: na petra. (of or on peter)
ovo je kuče na petra (this is the hound on or of petar)
This construct exists in Irish and in this dialect of Serbian which is spoken in my birth place.
Mac na Mara - the son of (na) the sea
By the the word for hound (wolf) is the same in Irish and Serbian (Cu, Ku)
Ku - wolf hound
Ku-ja - she wolf hound
ku-ce - male or baby wolf hound
Here is an excellent web site on European peasant footwear:
The oldest mention of a footwear that looks like Opanak is found in Azerbaijan. In Sanscrit, the footwear similar to opanak is called upanah (upana). Official etymology is that it comes from upa - to tie up, and nat to bend. It is still worn in certain parts of India as part of Ceremonial dress. We can find depictions of opanak in Iran, Afghanistan, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, and in Europe from Balkans to Baltic and in Ireland.
In the Balkans only male opanak has the "beak", the front part that curls upwards. It is a symbol of a male genitalia.
Now interestingly enough one culture where we see opanak everywhere are Hittites.
Seal of Muwattalli I, depicted in the embrace of the Storm God of Heaven. His Hittite name ‘Muwattalli’ is written on the left, while his Hurrian name, ‘Šarri-Teššup’, is written on the right.
Rock inscription of Muwattalli I at Fraktin
Various rock carvings
The Oldest Known Well-Preserved Leather Shoe from Armenia
Irih early medieval leather shoe
Now here is the best bit:
In Irish we again have a word opanak and the word for sole of the foot taban identical to the corresponding words in Serbian. We also have the complete etymology of these words:
bonn - base, sole of the foot
tob - quick, instant
tobaine - quickness, suddenness
tobann - sudden, hasty, quick
obann - swift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobelar)
obann probably comes from o+bonn, on sole of the foot, what we put on sole of the foot, on the base and which makes us swift.
ach - an ending for making a noun from an adjective
oban + ack = obannach = opanak = what makes us swift
in Serbian a word taban means sole of the foot. Tabanati means to run, to go quickly.
Tobann = T+obann = Taban - Sole of the foot, Quick
In Serbian there is also a word "opa!" exclamation which people say when they are jumping and which also means to jump. "opati" means to jump.
How did these two words get to be in Serbian, other south Slavic languages and Irish? I think that it has to be second millennium BC at the time when Mushki went to Asia minor to form Hittite empire. Mushki, the manly solders with opanak which has a beak pointing up to show that they are Mushki (men)? Or maybe even earlier? Any ideas?
Papuča (plural: Papuče pronounced papuche)
Papuča is a word which in Serbian today means slipper but is actually just another word for the same type of simple leather sole footwear of type opanak.
Here is the official etymology:
Now what is the word for slipper in various languages:
Albanian - heqël
Afrikaans - pantoffel
Arabic - something that sounds like shimsam
Here is a discussion on various words for shoes used in Arabic languages, just to make sure the word did not come from Arabic languages:
Armenian - hoghat’ap’
Azerbaijani - otaq ayaqqabısı
Basque - eskarpia (Sout), eskarpiña (old B) n. ‘slipper’.
Berber - bálgha
Belorussian - Тапачкі (tapachki)
Bosnian - papuča
Bulgarian - чехъл (chehl)
Catalan - sabatilla
Croatian - papuča
Czech - pantofel
Danish - tøffel
Dutch - pantoffel
English - slipper
Estonian - suss
Finnish - tohveli
French - pantoufle, babouche (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babouche)
Galician - chinelos
German - Pantoffel
Greek - pantófla
Gujarati - Campala
Hindi - Slipara
Hungarian - papucs
Italian - pantofola
Latin - CREPIDA
Latvian - tupele or Čības
Lithuanian - šlepetė or šliurė
Macedonian - пантофли (pantofli)
Maltese - krepiduli, papoċċ
Norwegian - tøffel
Persian - pāpoosh (پاپوش, from pa "foot" + poosh "covering."
Polish - pantofel
Portugese - chinelo
Romaian - papuc
Russian - тапочка (tapuchka)
Serbian - папуча (papucha)
Slovak - pantofel
Spanish - zapatilla, pantufla, babucha (clearly showing influence from many languages)
Swedish - toffel
Turkish - terlik
Ukrainian - Гапочка (gapochka)
Yiddish - Ştʻqşwk
Here is a discussion on Iberian words for slipper and shoe:
From the above we can see that the word "Papuča" or a similar word is used for a footwear in Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Persian, Ottoman Turkish, French, Spanish but not in Arabic languages, Latin, Greek nor in eastern Slavic and Germanic languages.
Why am i boring you with this?
Because of this:
These early shoes (slippers) were being worn in Ireland as early as the late iron age and early medieval period. This is confirmed by the examples found in Irish bogs and which can be seen in the Irish national museum. They were still made and worn in 1950 in exactly the same way in Aran Islands, the most remote and westernmost Island off the coast of Ireland. They were probably worn in Ireland even earlier as they represent the the most rudimentary type of leather footwear and are almost identical to the Armenian prehistoric shoe. Here is an instruction how to make the Pampooties and how to wear them:
Here is an article about 18th century Scottish highland shoes. In the article you can among other find this:
What this is saying is that up until 20th century peasants did not have fashion. What worked was made and was used and was worn unchanged for thousands of years. These shoes are a perfect example. Because there is no change in the object, there is certainly no change in the name of the object. So we can assume that the name for these Irish and Scottish shoes was pampootie (paputie, papuche) at least as far back as the early medieval time.
Ron Pinhasi, the man who found the Armenian prehistoric shoe and a lecturer in archaeology at the University College Cork in Cork, Ireland said:
In England we find this old word:
Now can anyone here explain to me how is it possible that if the origin of the word pampootie (paputie, papuche, Papuče) is indeed Persian, we find pampootie in Iron Age Ireland?
Unless the origin of the word is not Persian but it actually comes from the prehistoric Balkans again.
What if word pampootie (paputie, papuche, Papuče) originated in the Balkans and was brought to Ireland at some stage of the Vinca or some later bronze or iron age migration? And what if word was brought to Persia and north Africa from the Balkans during Ottoman time when Ottoman Turkish was hugely influenced by the South Slavic languages?
If the footwear and its name pampootie (paputie, papuche, Papuče) originate in the Balkans, that would explain the distribution of this word and the type of footwear much better i think. But is there anything else that could prove that pampootie and Papuče are one and the same and that they come from some old proto Irish-Serbian language? There is:
This is the important bit: "ghillie" (or "gillie," a misnomer derived from the Gaelic for servant or attendant)...
In Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian (Dinaric languages) there is a word "gilje" which is a word for shoes. "giljati" is a word for walking. In Gaelic we have gillie a servant, someone who you send to walk for you and do errands and "ghillie" for poor people's papuche or opanke shoes.
This again shows the connection between Irish and Serbian culture and language which does not exist in other European languages and which i believe points to their coexistence in a very distant past, probably in the Balkans during Vinca time or even earlier.
Interestingly the Armenia (Georgia), Ireland and England and the Balkans are again the same area where we find mushki and bregians...
If anyone has a better explanation for this i would like to hear it...
Maybe pampootie (paputie, papuche, Papuche) all come from papuk or papak or have the same root with the word papak. Papak is Serbian word for cloven hoof found in sheep, pigs, goats, cows and deer.
The hard outer covering can be pilled off with a knife and it resembles a shoe a covering for the soft bottom of the foot or hoof.
This is quite interesting as it gives us a link into Irish:
péac - peak, point
áibhirseoir - adversary, devil
péac ón áibhirseoir - expression meaning limb of satan, and because satan has sheep or goats limbs, the limb of satan is cloven hoof of a sheep or a goat. so péac is cloven hoof as well.
ba - root word for many words associated with sheep, and an onomatopoeic word for sheep as well so it probably is the old word for sheep.
babag - tassle, bunch or hair, wool
bachlag - a shoot, a curl, Irish bachlóg. This word is intersting.
bachal - shepards staff
bàbhun - enclosure for cattle (sheep), ring fort. In medieval Serbian and Bosnian documents there is repeated mention of Babuni as being the simple folk, sheppards, mountain people, non christians and babun language which was banned.
bàdhan - a churchyard (Sutherland), i.e. "enclosure", same as bàbhun.
bán - white (like wool. olann (irish) = woolen (english) = vunen (serbian))
banair - sheep fold
Cabhan = grassy hill
Gabhan - cattle pond. In serbian shepard is čoban, but shepard's hooded rain gown is kabanica (gabanica). Was the original word for shepard in Serbian Gaban?
bá - stupid (in Serbia we say stupid like a sheep)
ba + péac = bapéac = papak = cloven hoof...
bapéaca - bapuca - pampoota -papuča - what is pulled over a hoof or a foot to protected it???
I have this correspondence with someone regarding my last post on another thread. I believe it is worth posting it here as well.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.
I like how shoehorning sounds in this context
Just few clarifications:
péac ón áibhirseoir = 'limb of Satan'
This is not my interpretation. I found it in Focloir Gaeilge-Bearla/Irish-English Dictionary as one of the phrases where the word péac is used. Now from this i deduced, and maybe i am wrong, that péac can also mean a sheep or goat or cow limlb (cloven hoof). I hope this makes things a little clearer about this etymology. By the way i recommend the dictionary it is excellent.
I try to consult as many sources relating to both Irish and Scottish Gaelic. I do that because some old (Celtic Serbian Irish) words were preserved better in Scotland than in Ireland. In Ireland they were sometimes gaelicised almost beyond recognition.
Agreed, never claimed that the Irish word for sheep is ba. I said that it might have been. In modern Serbian the word for sheep is ovca, but in old Serbian we find brav or b(a)rav. The reason why i suggested the existence of word "ba" is because from what i have found so far all the major domestic and wild animals in Serbian have onomatopoeic names. So sheep would be "baaaa" or "baeee" or "beee". Why do i think that people originally used characteristic sounds of animals as their names? Because we are talking the beginning of the language. There were no words, yet people wanted to communicate and pass a message. In case of sheep, the message was simple: Look there is a sheep! Except that they did not have a word for sheep and even if someone decided to call a sheep a sheep, he had no way of explaining to the others what sheep is, because there was no language yet. But everyone have seen a sheep, and have heard a sheep. So if you imitate the sound of a sheep, everyone knows what you are talking about. So "baaa" or "ba" conveys the message: "look there is a sheep" perfectly and simply. Later on people invented other words for sheep, but that was much later when they had a language as means to associate these "sheep" words with "sheep" meaning.
In Irish and in Serbian we have similar onomatopoeic name for cow "bo". This comes from the actual sound of cows which is something between "mpbvooo", "mpbvoouu" "mpbvuuu". Here is a recording:
You can see that i have put "mpbv" at the beginning. "mpbv" it the undifferentiated sound created by opening your lips and blowing air out. You start with m then go to p then to b and at the very end you get v. This is exactly what you hear when you are listening to cows, and probably what people imitated when they wanted to tell each other that there is a cow somewhere around. Another reason why i put "mpbv" at the beginning of the word is because it is quite difficult to differentiate these sounds without proper training. This is why babies are "babbling", which means they are making "mpbv" sound until they acquire a sufficient control of their speech apparatus. Today this is relatively easy as we get a lot of this skill prepackaged in our genes through epigenetic inheritances, although not everyone gets the same genes and this is why we have languages that sound different. But at the beginning of the language development, people were still trying to learn how to control their mouths to make differentiated sounds and this is why i believe they used "mpbv" sound in "mpbvaaa" or "mpbvoo". This is also the reason why we have words like this:
bó (Irish) - cow
vo (Serbian) - cow, or castrated bull, or bull used for agricultural activities and not for mating.
but we also have all these other bo (vo) related words in Serbian which don't exist in Irish:
bo - stab
bosti - to stab
ubo - stabbed
bodež - knife
But also this:
Let me suggest alternative etymology which corresponds with already proposed romanian one. Tho word Boyar comes from bó + àire = cow (cattle) + lord. We actially find bó àire in Irish texts describing the Iron age proliferation of ring forts, where each ring fort was owned by a bóàire or a cattle lord. This title was imposed on the Eastern Slavs during the process of merging of the Central European Celts (Western Slavs) and the Rus (Eastern Slavs). Remember how Dumha means tumulus in Irish, but also a place of councils, parliament in Russian. In old Ireland tumuluses were used as places of tribal councils and parliaments where kings were elected for instance. In Brega one of the tumuluses was actually converted into a royal fort. This merging of Celts and Russ basically meant that Celtic (Serbian, west Slavic) military elite became ruling caste of the Russ. This process was described in "The book of Veles" a much disputed ancient Slavic manuscript, but which i believe to be based on actual histories because i found in it things that could not have been invented in 19th or 20th century as the knowledge necessary to forge these things did not exist at the time. From that period of merging we have these words as well:
Mol, Moladh (Irish). Meanings
hub(n m1)(of wheel)
Mol, Molba (Serbian). Meanings
Mol-im te bože - I beg you, I praise you god
Mol-io bih - If i could suggest
Moladjec (Molad je (e) - c) - recommended is - a commendation given to a someone
As for grassy hill (cabhan) i would suggest another etymology:
bán - white (like wool, or milk). Here i think you can see the old word bá + n as meaning that color which looks like things we get from the thing that says "bá". The word bán could have even been used to denote sheep as wee see here:
àire - attention, care, care, minister, lord
banair - sheep fold. Probably comes from banaire - place for caring, owning, keeping sheep.
Now these two words:
Cabhan = grassy hill
Gabhan - cattle pond. In serbian shepard is čoban, but shepard's hooded rain gown is kabanica (gabanica). Was the original word for shepard in Serbian Gaban?
I believe that they come from the same root: ga + ban = stick, spear, stake + sheep. This perfectly describes sheparding: you go to a grassy hill with your sheep and your stick or spear (ga) where you mind the sheep while they graze. Then you bring them to gaban or sheep, cattle pond where you milk them and protect them during the night. The person who carries a stick (ga) and is minding sheep (ba(n)) is gaban (shepard) and he wears gabanicu (hooded rain gown). Speaking of Badhan/badhún being derived from Medieval Irish for cattle (= ba) + fort (= dún), in Serbian we have another interesting word: katun (gadun). This word means shepards settlement in the mountains during summer grazing period. This comes from Ga (stake) and dun (which actually does not mean fort but enclosure). so Gadun is an enclosure made of stakes, ring fort.
We also have this word
Baodhan, baoghan - a calf.
I actually believe that this word used to mean lamb as well or any cattle (cows, sheep) descendant. This comes from:
ba, bo (sheep, cow)
ogha - grandchild, Irish ó, ua, g. ui, a grandson, descendant,
so ba(o)oghan - a child of a sheep or cow
We also have this cluster of words:
bleagh - milk
bleachdair - milk man
bleoghainn - milking
agh - field, meadow
le - with, by
leagh (Scottish Gaelic) - melt, thaw, dissolve (in liquid) (make liquid)
leacht (Irish) - liquid
àire - attention, care, care, minister, lord
bleagh = ba + leacht (leagh) = ba + leak = baleak = (pronounced) blek (milk) - literally a liquid you can squeeze from this thing on the meadow which says ba.
bleachdair = ba + leacht (leagh) + àire = (pronounced) blek(d)ar - literally someone who cares for getting liquid squeezed from this thing on the meadow which says ba.
Focloir Gaeilge-Bearla/Irish-English Dictionary
bleko = "mpbv"aleko = mleko (milk)
blekar = "mpbv"lekar - mlekar (milk man)
blekan = "mpbv"lekan - mlekan (made of milk, to milk)
Interestingly in Serbian we call sounding of sheep "ble". This probably comes from ba + le = sound produced by sheep...
Here we have another interesting word probably related to cattle (sheep, cows) but also women, which were in the olden days considered to be a property in the same way as cattle.
Ban, Bana - woman, girl, female. I think it is interesting how similar this is to Ba, Bo, Ban for sheep and cow. By the way in Bosnia there is a word "bona" which means woman.
Now in the olden days (I like this expression, i got it from Peppa pig which i watch with my son), bands of warriors used to go into cattle and women raids. The aim was to steal as much cattle or women from the enemy tribe. In Irish a group of men is called dáil. From this word we have gardáil from ga(r) (spear) + dáil (group of men) = men with spears.
So from ba(n) cattle, women and dáil (group of men) we have bandáil which is in modern Irish used to mean assembly of women (what ever that means) but originally probably had the meaning of "gang of men going to steal cattle and women". This is probably where word Vandal (bandail) comes from. Vandali, Bandali were probably just gangs of men from Central Europe on gian cattle and women raid. In Serbian and other languages we still have the word "banda" which means exactly that (a gang):
This is just one of the words that entered Latin from this central European "Celtic" (Serbian, western Slavic) language.
While we are talking about cattle here are few more words which are the same in Serbian and Irish and is related to cattle:
tuar (Irish) - dung, manure, cattle field, sheep run
tor (Serbian) - sheep run
gùn (Irish) - gown, Irish gúna; from the English gown, from Welsh gwn (*gwun), from Celtic *vo-ouno-
gunj (Serbian) - gown made from wool (vuna is wool in Serbian)
When i was in Serbia last month i got few dictionaries that cover specific dialects of Serbian language. One of them covers Dinaric Montenegrian dialect, from the same area where they use word Katun (Gadun) for the Shepard's mountain settlement. In the dictionary they had a whole section dedicated to sheep names, given to them based on their appearance and behavior. I know i am mad. In there i found this:
Bleka - completely white sheep
Blekan - completely white ram
Compare this with
bleagh - milk (white)
bleachdair - milk man
bleoghainn - milking
Also as an example of the interchangeability of the "mpbv" sound group i will expand the "bo" word group in Serbian:
bó (Irish) - cow
vo (Serbian) - cow, or castrated bull, or bull used for agricultural activities and not for mating.
bo - stab (like with horns from bo, vo. This is probably how people got an idea for creating stabbing and impaling weapons in the first place)
bosti - to stab
ubo - stabbed
bodež - knife
boj, voj - battle with sharp objects which you can use to stab, like spears, o knives
bojnik, vojnik, bojovnik - solder, a man that has a sharp objects which you can use to stab, like spears, o knives
bojna, vojna - war, a fight with sharp objects which you can use to stab, like spears, o knives
vojevati - to fight in war
boii - not a tribe but the solders, men with spears?
bojati se - to be afraid
You can see here that b and v are practically interchangeable. This apples to Serbi and Servi in the same way. In the Irish language we don't even have v sound. We have p, b, mh and bh. This is a good illustration of the undifferentiated "mpbv" block being partially differentiated.
Now how old are these words? How old is this language?
To support my theory that the first names of animals with distinct sounds were onomatopoeic, i have here collected the names and sounds of all major European wild and domestic animals. The names are in Serbian and then in English. I would like to ask people here to help me and supply the matching names of animals in other European languages.
I think that it is amazing that every one of the animal names in Serbian is onomatopoeic and very few in English are. As i explained earlier onomatopoeic names were used during the creation of the language, before there was sufficient grammar and word pool to explain the association between the name and the animal. This shows how old the Serbian animal names are. This also says a lot about the age of the Serbian language as a whole.
Most interesting is that the common word for Eagle (Orao) is derived from the sound of the Griffon vulture which only lives in southern Europe. This puts the birth place of Serbian language in the Dinaric Alps.
lav (lion) lions used to live in Europe in distant past.
the sound is laaaow
vuk, volk, voulk, olk, oulk
the sound is wouuuuulk
the sound is wof,wolf
the sound is rissss
urs, medved (bear). Medved is the euphemistic name for bear in Slavic languages. It is used instead of the real name for bear, as invoking the real name was considered dangerous. The real name is urs.
the sound is urs
svinja, guda, vepar (pig, boar)
vepar (wild boar)
the sound is veeee
the sound is sviiiii
guda (grunting, groktanje)
the sound is goud
elk, elen, jelen (deer stag)
the sound is eeelk
how people imitate elks
sounds like koun, kuun
sounds like lasiiica
Lija, Lisica (fox)
sounds like liaaaa
jazavac pronounced iazavac (badger)
sounds like iazavava
sounds like jeezhjezh
zmija, smija (snake) the ssssss sound comes from the slithereing sound a snake makes in the undergrowth and from the hissing sound an angry snake makes to scare the enemy off
žaba pronounced zhaba (frog)
sounds like zhabababab
foka - seal
sounds like (f)oook
sounds like viiii
dabar (beaver) the name comes from the sound of wood chewing or maybe from the angry sound
chewing sounds like dabdabdab
angry beaver sounds like daaaab
veverica (Red squirrel)
sounds like veverver
the sound is mpbvooou
ba, barav (sheep)
the sound is baaa
the sound is gooo
konj, konjic, (which makes njiii sound, horse)
the sound is niiiii
the sound is magaaaa
the sound is koko
kokot, oroz, pevac (cockerel)
the sound is kokoreku or ooroso
the sound is pa(k)pa(k) or k(mpbv)a(k)
guska, gaska (guse)
the sound is guu, gua
ku(ce), ker, pas (dog)
the sound is ouuuu, kouuuu, ku
the sound is kerrrrr
the sound is maaaaou
Griffon vulture, Gyps fulvus, Eurasian griffon. Grifon was one of the symbols of the Serbs
sound is closest to orr, aorr, oarr
the sound is very close to igal or ior
soko (Peregrine Falcon)
sounds like sokosokosoko
gavran, gabran (raven)
sounds like gaaa
sounds like chaa
sounds like vraa
Ćuk pronounced tjuk (Scops Owl)
sounds like tjuk
gugutka (Eurasian Collared Dove)
sounds like gugugu
golub (wood pidgeon)
sounds like gogolub
sounds like gaaal
jejina (long eared owl)
sounds like yeye
buljina (Eurasian Eagle-owls)
sounds like bu-uu
sounds like svrakakaka
sounds like tetr
štiglic, (Eurasian Siskin)
sounds like shtiii
sounds like cheshcheshljuu
vrabac, dzivdzan (sparow)
sounds like dzivdziv
senica (great tit)
sounds like senitc sesenitc
sounds like rodarodarodada
sounds like prepreprep
jarebica pronounced iarebitsa (partridge)
sounds like iariariarebieareb
sounds like liiis liiis
čaplja pronounced chaplja (Grey Heron)
sounds like chap chap
sounds like vicviclalalalaaastavicvicvic
sounds like zrizri
sounds like cvrrrrrr
muva (house fly)
sounds like movazzz
zunzara (bluebottle), obad (gadfly, horsefly) any big loud fly
sounds like zuzzzzz
pčela pronounced pchela but probably comes from (mpbv)(sz)ela like in polish pszczoła (beee)
sounds like mpbvsze
sounds like ossssssssss
sounds like bummmm
One slight fly in the ointment is this,
The Irish "Gaelic" language has been changed so much in the last 100 years that an Irishman from the 18th century probably wouldn't understand most of it.
The closest to proper old Irish would be Scots Gaelic.
Quote from Wikipedia:-
Around the time of World War II, Séamas Daltún, in charge of Rannóg an Aistriúcháin (the official translations department of the Irish government), issued his own guidelines about how to standardise Irish spelling and grammar. This de facto standard was subsequently approved by the State and called the Official Standard or Caighdeán Oifigiúil. It simplified and standardised the orthography. Many words had silent letters removed and vowel combination brought closer to the spoken language. Where multiple versions existed in different dialects for the same word, one or more were selected.
- Gaedhealg / Gaedhilg(e) / Gaedhealaing / Gaeilic / Gaelainn / Gaoidhealg / Gaolainn → Gaeilge, "Irish language" (Gaoluinn or Gaolainn is still used in books written in dialect by Munster authors, or as a facetious name for the Munster dialect)
- Lughbhaidh → Lú, "Louth"
- biadh → bia, "food" "
This altered the Irish language to a massive extent. A look at the old street signs shows this. Above the modern street signs around in Dublin are still a few of the old cast iron signs and the Irish used in them are very different.