#16

Jim2007 said:
Given the current situation within the EU, I would doubt that Croatia's entry into the EU will have any impact on the visa situation for several years to come... so I doubt that it will be of much use to you.

As for gaining a work permit on her own merit, again I would not hold out much hope on this front. In addition to everything else the employer must show that there is no EU or EA (e.g. Switzerland) person available to take up the position, this is usually done by advertising the job locally and abroad. However from some areas (Clerical/Admin/Finance/Banking being one) this is not enough as it is clearly recognized that there are more than sufficient applicants available within the EU to fill such positions. So unless your girlfriend has a PhD in economics and has a national or international reputation in this area, it is going to be a very hard sell.

I would expect your best chance is marriage or some kind of registered partnership agreement that would allow you to apply for a visa under the heading of family reunification.

One thing I would advise is to make sure that you do everything by the book, as any restrictions issued by the Irish authorities are EU/EA applicable. So the penalties can be very restricting!


There is no need to be married or in a registered partnership, de-facto only requires that you can show a relationship for 2 or more years. It is not family reunification, that application is for recognised refugees.

gral6 Registered User
#17

De-facto does not work. What the problem of getting married in Croatia ? If something goes wrong you ll get divorced over there very easy

Jim2007 Registered User
#18

ResearchWill said:
There is no need to be married or in a registered partnership, de-facto only requires that you can show a relationship for 2 or more years. It is not family reunification, that application is for recognised refugees.


I was just using EU/EA speak, because that is the level I deal with most of the time.

Croatia has the concept of a "domestic partnership" which is widely accepted through out the EU/EA for the purposes of reunification (or whatever you prefer to call it), so I expect that having that would be much easier than having to prove a de-facto relationship....

#19

gral6 said:
De-facto does not work. What the problem of getting married in Croatia ? If something goes wrong you ll get divorced over there very easy


De-facto does work, I have know people who have got stamp 4 under de-facto. The problem with marriage is that the Irish state may not recognise and future divorce and the guy could be in seriouse difficulty in years to come.

#20

Jim2007 said:
I was just using EU/EA speak, because that is the level I deal with most of the time.

Croatia has the concept of a "domestic partnership" which is widely accepted through out the EU/EA for the purposes of reunification (or whatever you prefer to call it), so I expect that having that would be much easier than having to prove a de-facto relationship....


De-facto is in fact very easy to prove, if the guy has been living with the girl in excess of 2 years then bills, rental agreement, invites to weddings and parties in both names and photographs of them together over a period of time.

Why enter into something they don't have to.

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medias Registered User
#21

Interesting discussion guys, thank you for all the feedback. To be honest I don't really have an appreciation of how hard this is going to be given the mixed feedback. I think the next step has to be to speak to the immigration officer at the garda station and see can we make the application, after that we will have to see .....

gral6 Registered User
#22

You better ask your question over here
www.immigrationboards.com

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tatli_lokma Registered User
#23

ResearchWill said:
De-facto is in fact very easy to prove, if the guy has been living with the girl in excess of 2 years then bills, rental agreement, invites to weddings and parties in both names and photographs of them together over a period of time.

Why enter into something they don't have to.


But OP says that he lives here, she lives there. Whilst a relationship can be proven, classifying it as 'de-facto' may prove difficult. Given the paperwork we had to provide to prove the validity of our relationship, and we are married, I can only imagine there are more grey areas when one goes for de-facto and doesn't live together

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medias Registered User
#24

ResearchWill said:
De-facto is in fact very easy to prove, if the guy has been living with the girl in excess of 2 years then bills, rental agreement, invites to weddings and parties in both names and photographs of them together over a period of time. Why enter into something they don't have to.

But OP says that he lives here, she lives there. Whilst a relationship can be proven, classifying it as 'de-facto' may prove difficult. Given the paperwork we had to provide to prove the validity of our relationship, and we are married, I can only imagine there are more grey areas when one goes for de-facto and doesn't live together


Sorry just to clarify I was living in Croatia for over a year and then had to move back as my contract ended, we have them been traveling back and forth since

Is the stamp 4 application on line or do you need to speak with the guards first? Can't seem to find it here

tatli_lokma Registered User
#25

medias said:
Sorry just to clarify I was living in Croatia for over a year and then had to move back as my contract ended, we have them been traveling back and forth since

Is the stamp 4 application on line or do you need to speak with the guards first? Can't seem to find it here


Yes, but living together for 1 year and now separate is more difficult to establish as de-facto than a couple living together for 2 yrs. I'm not saying it can't be done or won't be accepted, but it does make it more open to the decision of the immigration official dealing with the application. When we got married here we had to prove a valid relationshop prior to the marriage. We were together 4 years before marriage, provided a LOAD of proof, including a property purchased together, and they still came back looking for more proof!

As for applying online, I don't believe this can be done, and as far as I know you need residency confirmed before a work permit is issued, but best to confirm this with INIS first. The bad news....INIS are notoriously difficult to get through to. The lines are only open Mon, Wed & Fri from 10am to 12.30pm. During that time you literally just have to keep phoning and phoning and phoning until you get through. In fact, of the whole process, we found getting the info from INIS and getting through to them to be the most difficult part! Their number is 1890 551 500
You can email them too - visamail@justice.ie
They are quite slow about replying, but its worth emailing and phoning regularly until you get an answer. Anything they confirm with you, ask them for a link to confirmation of this on the website, or ask them to email it to you - best to have any information in writing just in case.

Good luck

#26

medias said:
Sorry just to clarify I was living in Croatia for over a year and then had to move back as my contract ended, we have them been traveling back and forth since

Is the stamp 4 application on line or do you need to speak with the guards first? Can't seem to find it here


I have see de-facto applications after regular relationship on holidays it is more difficult but not any way impossible. They look at e-mails and other contact it is easier in this case as they spent a year together in Croatia.

tatli_lokma Registered User
#27

Just be warned, emails are not acceptable as the main proof of relationship - mainly because they can be doctored. We were explicity told this - while you can include them to bolster your application, they should not be the main form of contact for a "considerable" portion of the relationship - considerable is their term and very vague. From what OP has said, visits back and forth have occurred since he returned to Ireland, so the relationship has not been only email and phone based since then. So they should be fine.

OP you should include copies of the entry and exit stamps on your passports and copies of your flight bookings. My advice to anyone with a partner abroad - KEEP ALL YOUR FLIGHT BOOKINGS, PHONE BILLS, EMAILS AND PHOTOGRAPH EVERYTHING! they will prove very valuable. every event you attend together - photograph it. Take photos with both families - not just the couple, but with each others families and friends.

De-facto can take ages though - up to 12 mths according to INIS. REalistically it would probably be less than this, but I would guess at least 6 mths. If you go this route, the main thing you need to prove is that you can support her whilst she is waiting on the decision and in a case where she is not granted a work permit, that you can continue to support her and she won't need assistance of the state. She will not be allowed to work whilst awaiting a decision on the application

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

#28

Little Ted said:
Just be warned, emails are not acceptable as the main proof of relationship - mainly because they can be doctored. We were explicity told this - while you can include them to bolster your application, they should not be the main form of contact for a "considerable" portion of the relationship - considerable is their term and very vague. From what OP has said, visits back and forth have occurred since he returned to Ireland, so the relationship has not been only email and phone based since then. So they should be fine.

OP you should include copies of the entry and exit stamps on your passports and copies of your flight bookings. My advice to anyone with a partner abroad - KEEP ALL YOUR FLIGHT BOOKINGS, PHONE BILLS, EMAILS AND PHOTOGRAPH EVERYTHING! they will prove very valuable. every event you attend together - photograph it. Take photos with both families - not just the couple, but with each others families and friends.

De-facto can take ages though - up to 12 mths according to INIS. REalistically it would probably be less than this, but I would guess at least 6 mths. If you go this route, the main thing you need to prove is that you can support her whilst she is waiting on the decision and in a case where she is not granted a work permit, that you can continue to support her and she won't need assistance of the state. She will not be allowed to work whilst awaiting a decision on the application

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278


All very good advice, and because of the proofs required, together with the departments random changes in policy best to get a good immigration solicitor involved. BTW the 12 month time to make decision is about right, they should not go over that time limit due to the high Court case of Mobin v MJELR don't know the reference off hand.

Vedrana Registered User
#29

Hi there,
I dont if you got full informaion so far on that subject, but either way I would like to introduce you to the fact of Croatians working permits in Ireland (as in non -eu) . Dont mistake stamp 4 with stamp 1 as this is very different. To obtain stamp 4, a non -eu can apply for it after 5 years living in Ireland. That means that during these 5 years, non -eu will have to work under the work permit (stamp 1). In application (after 5 years) all the work permits must be enclosed. So, stamp 1 is actualy a work permit and stamp 4 is a long term residance that lasts for 5 years and person can live and work in Ireland for 5 years without a work permit. Waiting period for stamp 4 after application can be up to 2 years!

JustAThought Registered User
#30

I wouldn't be rushing to marry someone I've only known for a year .... There's 400,000 people on the dole here ; work might just be irrelevant. Will she be happy giving up her job in C to just hang about all fday here!

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