#1

From this Sunday 17 June Bus Éireann will interduce a new improved timetable on the Waterford-Carlow-Dublin-Airport. Journey time from Waterford-Dublin will reduce to 2h30mins. A new X4 service will replace some 4 services mainly night time departures from Waterford only and they will use the M9 to Kilkenny and service Kilkenny rail station. Must say the trains take around 2.25-2.30 so now IR have meet there match and its time to wake up and do somthing. Thats Cork, Waterford and Belfast with recent bus improvments to match train servics.

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1339596993-4.pdf

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Geog1234 Registered User
#2

Seems a good timetable.

Assume the stop (marked by a Bus Éireann flagpole) at Green Lane/Hillview Drive on the outskirts of Carlow (Dublin side) is still being served.

Boarded there once and saw others boarding/alighting too on several different occasions.

It's neither explicitly mentioned in the current timetable nor this forthcoming one.

road_high Registered User
#3

Brill to see more direct BE airport services from Kilkenny. Pity they don't seem to have any return services though via Kilkenny.

foggy_lad Banned
#4

Geog1234 said:
Seems a good timetable.

Assume the stop (marked by a Bus Éireann flagpole) at Green Lane/Hillview Drive on the outskirts of Carlow (Dublin side) is still being served.

Boarded there once and saw others boarding/alighting too on several different occasions.

It's neither explicitly mentioned in the current timetable nor this forthcoming one.

It is a rubbish timetable as it still has massive three hour gaps between peak time buses, there are no buses from Carlow to Dublin from ten past four to ten past seven!. Also that stop at quinns shop in Carlow is not served by "expressway" buses only what are known as service buses, but these are not marked on the timetable.

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bk Moderator
#5

foggy_lad said:
It is a rubbish timetable as it still has massive three hour gaps between peak time buses, there are no buses from Carlow to Dublin from ten past four to ten past seven!. Also that stop at quinns shop in Carlow is not served by "expressway" buses only what are known as service buses, but these are not marked on the timetable.


Yes it does seem to be a pretty poor attempt. I wonder if they are doing this in attempt to stop a private company entering the market along the same route with a more complete schedule.

A Dublin - Kilkenny - Carlow - Waterford service would be the next obvious route for a private after all the recent Cork, Belfast, Limerick action.

lxflyer Registered User
#6

There are JJ Kavanagh coaches out of Carlow to Dublin at 1710 and 1845. There hardly needs to be more duplication?

However a certain poster doesn't seem to use that operator and never mentions them as an option for whatever reason.

JJ Kavanagh operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Carlow-Waterford and Dublin Airport-Dublin-Kilkenny-Clonmel.

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foggy_lad Banned
#7

lxflyer said:
There are JJ Kavanagh coaches out of Carlow to Dublin at 1710 and 1845. There hardly needs to be more duplication?

However a certain poster doesn't seem to use that operator and never mentions them as an option for whatever reason.

JJ Kavanagh operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Carlow-Waterford and Dublin Airport-Dublin-Kilkenny-Clonmel.

I am aware of the private operator on the route and have used them several times but can't understand why this route is left in the hands of private operators when Dublin to rosslare, Belfast, edenderry,athlone, Galway and limerick and the Galway to limerick and even waterford to cork and waterford to limerick routes are better served with better timetables and the routes recieve far more attention from bus Eireann? Is it because the Waterford route is part of their public service offering for which they recieve a subsidy?

Also worth note is that kavanaghs take a lot longer between Dublin and Waterford and serve Naas Kilcullen and Castledermot and several other stops along the route.

Why are the people of Waterford and Carlow treated like lepers by C.I.E.? For years there was an awful train service to Carlow with regular breakdowns and often trains not being available at all and the buses were not much better, why are the new expressway buses not used on the Waterford route??

lxflyer Registered User
#8

The route is not subsidised so it is open to anyone to operate it. Therefore it is not a public service - it is a commercial one.

Where the vehicles operate is a commercial decision by the company.

You need to look at all the operators' services and not just Bus Eireann. Reading your original post, anyone would have thought that there were no alternatives.

I would strongly argue to the contrary regards the level of service - there are 8 trains a day to Waterford and 9 to Carlow. There are 9 BE expressway services also and 12 JJ Kavanagh services a day. That is hardly a poor service.

I don't see anything written in stone that BE have to provide hourly services everywhere? Maybe the NTA won't let them?

bk Moderator
#9

BE could only manage 6 services a day to Cork, the second largest city in Ireland with nothing before 8am and noting after 6pm

And you are surprised their service to Waterford is so poor!

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lxflyer Registered User
#10

To be fair they and Aircoach operated it as an effective joint service with the two alternating.

bk Moderator
#11

lxflyer said:
To be fair they and Aircoach operated it as an effective joint service with the two alternating.


And you think a cozy duopoly is a good thing

Fortunately these sort of cozy relationships are starting to end and we are getting some vicous competition, with the resulting vastly better standards of service for the customer

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foggy_lad Banned
#12

lxflyer said:
The route is not subsidised so it is open to anyone to operate it. Therefore it is not a public service - it is a commercial one.

Where the vehicles operate is a commercial decision by the company.

You need to look at all the operators' services and not just Bus Eireann. Reading your original post, anyone would have thought that there were no alternatives.

I would strongly argue to the contrary regards the level of service - there are 8 trains a day to Waterford and 9 to Carlow. There are 9 BE expressway services also and 12 JJ Kavanagh services a day. That is hardly a poor service.

I don't see anything written in stone that BE have to provide hourly services everywhere? Maybe the NTA won't let them?
Obviously there is some tightwad in Waterford or Dublin making decisions that the route is not worth putting decent buses onto and giving the thousands of people in Carlow and Waterford a service they can use! having gaps of three hours between peak time services is just not good enough for people who decide for whatever reason not to take the train or private operator! bus Eireann should either provide the service or hand the route over entirely to private operators who will do a much better job IMHO.

bk said:
BE could only manage 6 services a day to Cork, the second largest city in Ireland with nothing before 8am and noting after 6pm

And you are surprised their service to Waterford is so poor!
It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick but can't run a bus to Dublin every two hours with an hourly bus to Carlow, makes me think there is some sweetheart deal done with Kavanaghs and Bus Eireann will not compete with them on this route. also there is no bus to dublin after 7.30pm which is a disgrace considering the last train departs even earlier than that at 6.20pm


Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?

lxflyer Registered User
#13

bk said:
And you think a cozy duopoly is a good thing

Fortunately these sort of cozy relationships are starting to end and we are getting some vicous competition, with the resulting vastly better standards of service for the customer


Not at all, but pre-M8 it probably was an appropriate level of service, perhaps with the exception of the early morning/late evening. However you can blame both operators for that rather than just Bus Eireann. Aircoach didn't provide such services either.

bk Moderator
#14

lxflyer said:
Not at all, but pre-M8 it probably was an appropriate level of service, perhaps with the exception of the early morning/late evening. However you can blame both operators for that rather than just Bus Eireann. Aircoach didn't provide such services either.


No, it was never appropriate. We have had the M8 for a few years now and they still hadn't improved the service. See below for the reason why IMO.

foggy_lad said:


It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick

Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?


It is very clear to me that BE and Irish Rail had a non compete agreement. If IR served a place, BE didn't bother to serve the same places or only did the minimum possible.

This left IR to charge high prices as they faced no competition and the public transport user suffered for it.

Fortunately this is all now changing.

The private operators are introducing much needed competition and we are now seeing BE and IR scrambling to respond.

From the point of view of a public transport user, the last 6 months as brought a revolution in public transport, with more excellent services been introduced then ever before:

- Fast (3 hours), cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Cork (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport) with possibly another service coming soon.
- Fast, cheap, hourly, 15 hour a day, direct bus service to Limerick
- Fast, cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Belfast (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport)
- Faster direct Galway -> Limerick -> Cork service.

And as a result, in response to this we are getting:

- BE services to Belfast, Cork and Waterford being improved and made faster and with shinny new buses.
- Irish Rail dropping their ticket prices in half
- Irish Rail coming up with ways to reduce their journey times.
- IR and BE introducing free wifi across most of their fleets.

This competition is the best thing that has ever happened to the public transport user

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lxflyer Registered User
#15

foggy_lad said:
Obviously there is some tightwad in Waterford or Dublin making decisions that the route is not worth putting decent buses onto and giving the thousands of people in Carlow and Waterford a service they can use! having gaps of three hours between peak time services is just not good enough for people who decide for whatever reason not to take the train or private operator! bus Eireann should either provide the service or hand the route over entirely to private operators who will do a much better job IMHO.

It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick but can't run a bus to Dublin every two hours with an hourly bus to Carlow, makes me think there is some sweetheart deal done with Kavanaghs and Bus Eireann will not compete with them on this route. also there is no bus to dublin after 7.30pm which is a disgrace considering the last train departs even earlier than that at 6.20pm

Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?


What part of "it's a commercial service" do you not understand?

There is no obligation on them to provide any service on the route. The other routes out of Waterford have no private operator on them so BE fill the gap. Waterford-Dublin does have one and maybe BE don't feel there is a market for it. Remember that they do not get a subsidy for it.

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