Janey_Mac Registered User
#1

Sick of the snobbery about people saying "I seen" and "I done"?

Time to ooh and aah over the varied and interesting ways people speak English instead!

To add to "I seen" and "I done" I offer "I clen" as the past tense of to clean.

Example: "I clen me room, mam! Can I go out?"

I first heard this in the 1990s in North County Dublin, but only ever in one family. Anyone else heard it?

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conor.hogan.2 Registered User
#2

Every single word is non standard to varying degrees. English is not French.

newmug Banned
#3

Yizzer. Plural of "your", as in plural of you plural. Eg. "Patrick, Bridie, yizzer dinners's is ready"

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Janey_Mac Registered User
#4

conor.hogan.2 said:
Every single word is non standard to varying degrees. English is not French.


I know, but at the same time there is a broadly identifiable "standard" dialect in most English-speaking countries. One dialect that due to accidents of history is privileged above the others as "correct". Not saying it's better, just saying it's the one you're most likely to hear from newsreaders in the course of their duties.

Janey_Mac Registered User
#5

I also really like the sign in Dublin Airport (Terminal 1) near baggage reclaim, which says,
"Have you the right bags?"

I get a giggle at the thought of how wrong that must seem to people coming in from places like the US or England.

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conor.hogan.2 Registered User
#6

Janey_Mac said:
I know, but at the same time there is a broadly identifiable "standard" dialect in most English-speaking countries. One dialect that due to accidents of history is privileged above the others as "correct". Not saying it's better, just saying it's the one you're most likely to hear from newsreaders in the course of their duties.


Yes but the media is wholly different to most normal regular peoples speech. There are more widely used dialects and these tend to become used in TV/Radio and/or Academia.

Janey_Mac Registered User
#7

conor.hogan.2 said:
Yes but the media is wholly different to most normal regular peoples speech. There are more widely used dialects and these tend to become used in TV/Radio and/or Academia.


This doesn't negate my point that this (not too widely used) dialect is perceived as being the standard.

Huh.

I think we basically agree with each other but are arguing largely over mis-matched wording... I think it's acceptable to label the privileged dialect "standard" since it's perceived as such by many people, even people who speak other dialects. I don't think it should be the only one spoken, or that it is a standard to which all speakers should aspire; I just think "standard" describes its position and function well.

conor.hogan.2 Registered User
#8

"standard" perhaps but not a Standard in the most common usage of the word.

It is not taught across the board in Irish schools and it is not used across the board on TV or Radio for example. It is not codified anywhere and there is no meetings to discuss the standard.

It is a semi-natural not to widely used (is key here as you said) dialect used in academia and news dialect but not a standard imo.

I think the fact we have to go around calling it "standard" with quotes sums it up quite well. Try telling anyone they do not speak standard English even in broadcasts or academia and you will not be kindly regarded.

Janey_Mac Registered User
#9

conor.hogan.2 said:
"standard" perhaps but not a Standard in the most common usage of the word.

It is not taught across the board in Irish schools and it is not used across the board on TV or Radio for example. It is not codified anywhere and there is no meetings to discuss the standard.

It is a semi-natural not to widely used (is key here as you said) dialect used in academia and news dialect but not a standard imo.

I think the fact we have to go around calling it "standard" with quotes sums it up quite well. Try telling anyone they do not speak standard English even in broadcasts or academia and you will not be kindly regarded.


Ha! I've tried that on occasion and been et out of it!

I see your point about the difference between Standard (as in Caighdeán Oifigiúl) and "standard" or even standard.

I would be inclined to say that insofar as any type of English is taught in Irish schools, "standard" Irish English is. Schoolbooks aren't written in any regional dialect, though (dim and distant memories of things like Ann and Barry and "Sonas" magazine in primary school here) I seem to recall that some of them had some distinctively Irish features in the language used, if only in quoted dialogue. Maybe it's different now, but I'd have been told "I done" was wrong if I wrote it in my homework, and- depending on the teacher- probably corrected if I uttered it in the classroom. But that kind of teaching is haphazard and as you say, there isn't any official codification, thank heavens. It's linguistic anarchy!

What would you consider a reasonable name for the dialect under discussion? Most dialects in Ireland can be named after the region they're prevalent in, but this dialect is supra-regional.

conor.hogan.2 Registered User
#10

English has nothing like Irish which in turn has nothing like French, that is my main point.

This "standard" can be called whatever you want as it is sparsely used and not tied to any area or time. I am not even sure it exists as you describe it in Ireland anyway.

There is a very vague something I could possibly point to as this "standard" but nothing like in America or the mid atlantic for example.

Supermensch Registered User
#11

I'm quite partial to 'do be', as in 'you do be in the shower only five minutes before the water goes cold'.

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Janey_Mac Registered User
#12

Supermensch said:
I'm quite partial to 'do be', as in 'you do be in the shower only five minutes before the water goes cold'.


Or if you really want to go to town on it: "You do be only after getting into the shower and it goes cold on you!"

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Supermensch Registered User
#13

Janey_Mac said:
Or if you really want to go to town on it: "You do be only after getting into the shower and it goes cold on you!"


"...So it does!"

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conor.hogan.2 Registered User
#14

Look at ye two, havin a laugh.

newmug Banned
#15

Whats wrong with "do be"? Or does be? As in "It does be raining on Saturdays". I would have thought that was standard / Standard / "standard", or indeed (standard)

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