TriggerPL Registered User
#16

Sorry lads, has anyone heard of this man?

http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm[/QUOTE]

In the 8 years ive been involved with the retriver trails in ireland ive never heard of him .

few things that i would be weary about !

1 he claims to be irelands no 1 trainer and breeder . but doesnt trail .

2 claims to have bread champions but does not name them on his site. if i was breeding champions id be putting there names up.

are you set on a spaniel , if your duck shooting and doing a bit of woodcock a lab would be just as gud to you .

but if it woodcock your after more so than it a spaniel you want .

depending on where you are see if you can get in contact with lad that do beats for estates , see if they know of any pups going , normally there dog work for a living so they have to be top notch.

#17

Two lads in our gun club are on the Irish team ,their dogs are nice fast stylish dogs all from skronedale stock but they dont use them for a full days rough shooting.THe dogs are bread for quick busts for a few minutes each time they will tell you that themselves you have to put a lot of work into them to slow them down and make them last for the whole day.
There are plenty of good dogs out there you just have to wade through the ****e first, a good mix in the pedigree is the first thing to look out for, then ask to see the parents working and i dont mean fetching a dummy in the back garden and sitting and staying, a good run out in a field , so you can see how they hunt and behave, dont ever feel under pressure to buy a pup,keep looking till you feel happy and always ask to see were the dogs are kept ,this way you can see if he is puppy farming ,this happens a lot with gundogs.
Have you considered buying a cocker? great little dogs ,will go all day and can get in and out cover like a shot,a good one is pricey though but well worth it.
Mine was 600, every single dog and bitch in the pedigree is a feild trail champion, but she will go all day and then do the same the next day but i had to put a lot of work in to calm her down a bit

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TriggerPL Registered User
#18

lb1981 said:
Two lads in our gun club are on the Irish team ,their dogs are nice fast stylish dogs all from skronedale stock but they dont use them for a full days rough shooting.THe dogs are bread for quick busts for a few minutes each time they will tell you that themselves.
There are plenty of good dogs out there you just have to wade through the ****e first, a good mix in the pedigree is the first thing to look out for, then ask to see the parents working and i dont mean fetching a dummy in the back garden and sitting and staying, a good run out in a field , so you can see how they hunt and behave, dont ever feel under pressure to buy a pup,keep looking till you feel happy and always ask to see were the dogs are kept ,this way you can see if he is puppy farming ,this happens a lot with gundogs.
Have you considered buying a cocker? great little dogs ,will go all day and can get in and out cover like a shot,a good one is pricey though but well worth it.


thank you sir .

#19

By the way from what the lads say Norman Blakney is a nice bloke and im sure if you told him what your needs are he would point you in the right direction.
Another lad from the club left his bitch in with him for a service, but the bitch got out on him ,these things can happen ,so he gave the lad the pick of the litter from his next top mating.

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#20

the dogs will learn to pace themselves, no springer will stay in heavy cover all day, they all get tired and sore trialing or not ,fitness and condition play a big part people tend to look back through rose tinted glasses springers of yester year my arss

TriggerPL Registered User
#21

snipe02 said:
the dogs will learn to pace themselves, no springer will stay in heavy cover all day, they all get tired and sore trialing or not ,fitness and condition play a big part people tend to look back through rose tinted glasses springers of yester year my arss


Right , so let me get this right ur saying that the men that work these dogs and trail these dog don't have them at full fitness and this is why they won't hit the heavy cover all day .

Yes I agree that dogs pace them selves but getting a spaniel to hit the heavy cover is where the problem lies and hitting it for more then 15 mins .

When a man that has trailed all his life with spaniels writes an article stating that the spaniels of today lack the drive of spaniels of yester years , how do you make out he has Rose tinted glasses on . Please tell !

#22

ye rose tinted glasses thats what i said....prob some element of truth in it but dont believe everything ya read ....there are still from what i have seen very hard going spaniels bred from trialing lines being used for rough shooting have one and shoot with lads that have them and know others you just thanked a post by lb stating his friends dont use there dogs all day because it takes too much time to teach them too pace themselves and slow down he never said the dogs would not do it im just saying still plenty of good ones around and some article in a book doesnt change that breed from a screwball and get a screwball breed from two hard going dogs and ya might get one how can one man put all trialing spaniels around today in the one bracket with the stroke of a pen

TriggerPL Registered User
#23

snipe02 said:
ye rose tinted glasses thats what i said....prob some element of truth in it but dont believe everything ya read ....there are still from what i have seen very hard going spaniels bred from trialing lines being used for rough shooting have one and shoot with lads that have them and know others you just thanked a post by lb stating his friends dont use there dogs all day because it takes too much time to teach them too pace themselves and slow down he never said the dogs would not do it im just saying still plenty of good ones around and some article in a book doesnt change that breed from a screwball and get a screwball breed from two hard going dogs and ya might get one how can one man put all trialing spaniels around today in the one bracket with the stroke of a pen


have you read my post at all . i didnt say you can not get a gud dog from trailing breeds . my own spaniel is from hattonswood brock backround, but i done the reserch and found a man with a hard hitting bitch and he bread with a hard hitting dog and guess what it payed off . ive a spaniel that would take down a building for a bird .

but these spaniels, were not trailing spaniels they were big powerful heavy boned spaniels not the light things you see doing figure eights at trails .

and i did not say that all trailing spaniels were in the same dog house ! i stated that spaniel men go true more spaniels looking for that gud one . So norman isnt going to sell you a pup that he thinks has the makings of a champion . he going to sell you the ones he dont want , like any trailing man would do .

And it not some article in a book ! Prob so element of truth in it its wrote by one of the best trailing men there is . i think he know a thing or two .

Your right about screwballs , hattonswood brock was bread with every bitch that was willing to pay the fee , people think " oh ive a spaniel bitch there il breed her to this ftch and now ive pups worth 400 euro " not taking into account that there bitch isnt even worthy of a house dog , never mind breeding to a champion .

brianfrancis45 Registered User
#24

fiestaman said:
Sorry lads, has anyone heard of this man?

http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm



Yes. He is a well known gun dog trainer. I bought a springer off him a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the dog. What I really liked about him is that he tries to fit the dog to the handler . Before I bought from him he let me see several dogs working , both very hard going dogs and some softer dogs... until I picked the one that I felt most comfortable with, which by the way was also his choice of dog for my handling abilities/experience. He's not the cheapest man to buy a dog from but then again he sells quality dogs and I know several lads who bought form him and were very satisfied.

TriggerPL Registered User
#25

brianfrancis45 said:
Yes. He is a well known gun dog trainer. I bought a springer off him a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the dog. What I really liked about him is that he tries to fit the dog to the handler . Before I bought from him he let me see several dogs working , both very hard going dogs and some softer dogs... until I picked the one that I felt most comfortable with, which by the way was also his choice of dog for my handling abilities/experience. He's not the cheapest man to buy a dog from but then again he sells quality dogs and I know several lads who bought form him and were very satisfied.


You pay for what you get !

gud to hear , could you post up the kinda back breeding of you dog so we have an idea of what lines he goes with .

and if it not to much hastle a pic , just curious as to weather it traily types or strong working dogs .

cheers

brianfrancis45 Registered User
#26

quote
http://www.topclassdogs.com/index.htm

In the 8 years ive been involved with the retriver trails in ireland ive never heard of him .

few things that i would be weary about !

1 he claims to be irelands no 1 trainer and breeder . but doesnt trail .

2 claims to have bread champions but does not name them on his site. if i was breeding champions id be putting there names up.
Unquote

Trigger, Frank Maunsell trialed dogs for years and was very successful. I am sure any old timers involved in springer trials would know him. Mind yuou he hasn't trialed for some years now as his focus is on breeding and training (both for fellas who want field trial dogs or good rough shooting dogs). As far as other gun dogs are concerned, afaik in the past he has bred/trained an int ft ch lab ( who i heard was sold some years ago to Japan for the price of a small house !) Just to be clear , I have no connection with the man apart from having bought a springer from him (and knowing other that have done likewise) and I have heard no complaints. Although I don't trial dogs myself I do attend several springer trials each year including open stakes. I've seen several dogs bred by Maunsell ( the kennel prefix name is ''Aughacasla'') run in the trials and many of them were right up there ......

As already said , I don't have any connection with the man as such, but fair is fair - the man really does know his dogs and is well respected especially in Munster for his training ability.

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brianfrancis45 Registered User
#27

TriggerPL said:
You pay for what you get !

gud to hear , could you post up the kinda back breeding of you dog so we have an idea of what lines he goes with .

and if it not to much hastle a pic , just curious as to weather it traily types or strong working dogs .

cheers


Trigger,

The dog I bought from him is out of Bramble Taff, Laganmill , Monalue lines.
He bought the dog as a pup from another breeder . trained him and then I bought him.

Frank Maunsell also breeds his own springers with the kennel pre-fix ''Aughacasla '' which AFAIK appear to have a lot of Monalue in the lines.

I've seen a variety of springers for sale at his kennels - some small/very flashy trialing type dogs and some big strong old fashioned type springers.

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Mauser 308 Registered User
#28

Guys as a matter of interest does anyone recomend someone who trains pointers in the leinster /midlands area?

#29

look i agree with most of what you say and you have agreed with most of what ive said i personally dont know enough about trialing springers to be going on about this its just and you have said this yourself that there are still plenty of hard going trialing lines around why ****e on the spaniels of the past... the reason i said rose tinted glasses is thats the way i see it is there any actual evidence and i say actual not just peoples opinions and ya know what opinions are like and we all have em to back this theory up ..the op asked a question and the thread was taken over by this read it in a book outburst norman blakely is suppose to be the best in ireland so op i would take his advice anyday over some dude on boards.ie im sure you wont go wrong giving him a ring anyway best of luck with getting a dog

kermitpwee Registered User
#30

snipe02 said:
look i agree with most of what you say and you have agreed with most of what ive said i personally dont know enough about trialing springers to be going on about this its just and you have said this yourself that there are still plenty of hard going trialing lines around why ****e on the spaniels of the past... the reason i said rose tinted glasses is thats the way i see it is there any actual evidence and i say actual not just peoples opinions and ya know what opinions are like and we all have em to back this theory up ..the op asked a question and the thread was taken over by this read it in a book outburst norman blakely is suppose to be the best in ireland so op i would take his advice anyday over some dude on boards.ie im sure you wont go wrong giving him a ring anyway best of luck with getting a dog


Lots of valid points. The modern trialing springer is a different animal then in the past. The modern spaniel is smaller and faster and the trials are set on ground that is laced with game. The modern trialer will prefer a spaniel with less drive(due to the amount of game on the trial site) and a spaniel that is of a soft temperant that can be trained like a robot.
the spaniels that won in the 70's and 80's were dogs that would hunt ground all day even if they came across very little game as they had very high drive. These dogs would not do well in a modern field trial and vice versa.

In ireland there are pockets of spaniels that are still big boned and strong, in recent years these dogs are been bought by Uk breeders to introduce size back into the breed.

Cockers are still relatively untouched in there breeding lineage as they have only recently become popular in trialing circles. There is talk that openshaw is now concentrating on trialing cockers more as he knows the Ess gene pool has been damaged beyond repair.

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