#16

BOHtox said:
Obama has added 8 trillion dollars or so onto national debt. Ron Paul plans to cut debt by 2.2 trillion over the next 4 years. Ron Paul is clearly the smarter of all the Republican candidates. I think a more accurate statement would be the less intelligent are generally bible lovers. You know the 'burn the gays I'm a patriot' type of person.


Even if we woke up tomorrow in a world where Cats and dogs made love, pigs could fly and Ron Paul got elected, he would not get his 2.2 trillion plan through the houses. and it wouldnt be a democrat only brick wall either.

Permabear Registered User
#17

ammuctsngames said:
Good point, I'm merely pointing out the bad sides to both spectrums of political ideology, essentially either one is get shot in the heart or shot in the head, either way you're gonna die. Most political parties in Ireland are centrist with the exception of "the Shinners" and the "united left alliance" but apart from that the majority are centrist, I am just poling the populace as to whether they would identify themselves as left or right if they had to choose one of the extremes.


Yes, but your characterization of a right-wing party as "George Bush, tax slashing, military loving, church going Red guy, in favour of 'blood for oil policies' and letting the greedy rich get richer while the working man gets poorer ..." is nothing more than an absurd caricature.

As a pacifistic libertarian atheist, I want nothing to do with churches or the military. And I'm aware that nothing hurts the poor more than a state-controlled economy. If you really want to see a country where the greedy get richer while the working man gets poorer, just look at the history of Cuba.

Sinn Féin may try to characterize themselves as "left-wing," but they're also as authoritarian as they come.

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GSF Registered User
#18

ammuctsngames said:

So I'm talking about an extreme George Bush, tax slashing, military loving, church going Red guy, in favour of "blood for oil policies" and letting the greedy rich get richer while the working man gets poorer ...


Bush spent a lot more on social programmes hence one of the reasons why the US has such a deficit. The OP is just a cartoon of left and right based on something he once read in The Guardian.

#19

Permabear said:
Yes, but your characterization of a right-wing party as "George Bush, tax slashing, military loving, church going Red guy, in favour of 'blood for oil policies' and letting the greedy rich get richer while the working man gets poorer ..." is nothing more than an absurd caricature.

As a pacifistic libertarian atheist, I want nothing to do with churches or the military. And I'm aware that nothing hurts the poor more than a state-controlled economy. If you really want to see a country where the greedy get richer while the working man gets poorer, just look at the history of Cuba.

Sinn Féin may try to characterize themselves as "left-wing," but they're also as authoritarian as they come.


again I am aware that my descriptions are ott stereotypes, the only question I am asking is whether you would rather live under extreme right and consrevative policies, or extreme left liberal policies

Permabear Registered User
#20

ammuctsngames said:
again I am aware that my descriptions are ott stereotypes, the only question I am asking is whether you would rather live under extreme right and consrevative policies, or extreme left liberal policies


I'd happily live under "extreme" libertarian policies, because such policies would amount to "Leave people alone and let them get on with their lives without unwarranted government interference."

No, I would not want to live under extreme conservative or left-wing policies.

Scofflaw Registered User
#21

I'm not sure this thread deserves to live, but while it does, keep the flamebait and trench warfare to a minimum.

moderately,
Scofflaw

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BOHtox Registered User
#22

ammuctsngames said:
again I am aware that my descriptions are ott stereotypes, the only question I am asking is whether you would rather live under extreme right and consrevative policies, or extreme left liberal policies



You can be extremely conservative and extremely liberal at the same time.

SeanW Registered User
#23

As a Centre-Libertarian, I would find both options unacceptable and spoil my vote.

Your choices are also somewhat simplistic, as you say there is a George Bush Right, but also a Ron Paul right.

From your simplistic view I find both equally objectionable.

But in your simplistic view, I would expect the Extreme Left version to win, indeed we have some of that for now ... though I support gay marriage (or at least civil unions).

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SeanW Registered User
#24

Permabear said:
Sinn Féin may try to characterize themselves as "left-wing," but they're also as authoritarian as they come.
Just a quick point, there's a 2D graph that more accurately reflects one's viewpoint, Authoritarian/Libertarian vs. Left/Right.

So you can have Authoritarian-Left, Authoritarian Right. etc.
Needless to say Sinn Fein vs. George Bush Jr. would be prime examples respectively of them.

But you could always be Libertarian-Left, i.e. focusing on things like gay marriage/civil unions, drug legalisation, anti-war etc.
Or Authoritarian-Left i.e. focusing on looking for new ways to redistribute wealth and strange businesses with silly regulations etc.

#25

ammuctsngames said:
Would an ultra-right or ultra-left have any place in Ireland??

Which one would you vote for??

Which one would you expect to win??


So I'm talking about an extreme George Bush, tax slashing, military loving, church going Red guy, in favour of "blood for oil policies" and letting the greedy rich get richer while the working man gets poorer ...

Or a pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro money wasting, taxes and levies, high taxes, attacking people with cars as stealth taxing etc, ultra wealth redistribution etc


That's hardly far left or right you're getting at. Far left is communism (Marxist-Leninism, Maoism, Trotskyism) and extreme social progressivism - gay marriage/adoption would only touch on the surface. You're talking about gender/race quotas, ultra political correctness and massive social engineering programmes aimed at making society more "equal".

In terms of the far right, well, remember the Nazi party? In a social sense, you're talking about extreme Social Darwinism brought into government policy (such as race-based eugenics), stripping the citizenship of racial minorities, moral religious ethnics becoming government policy. On the economic sphere, you're talking about state capitalism and corporatism - fascism, basically.

Both the far right and far left are pretty draconian and dystopic.

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goose2005 Registered User
#26

Irish people don't like parties with clear ideologies - it's best to say as little as possible. Like the PDs got loads of votes when it wasn't clear what they stood for beyond "progress", "democracy" and hating Charlie Haughey; they dropped to nothing once it became clear that they were libertarian right.

walshb Registered User
#27

After careful consideration I will lean to the right!

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Eggy Baby! Registered User
#28

Ultra left wouldn't work in Ireland because of the strength of the rural tradition here (farmers wouldn't want to give up their lands to the government) but I suppose ultra right would work because we're all bloody racists anyway.

old hippy Banned
#29

I don't care for political labels. I would vote for a party that believed in pro-abortion, anti-military, complete separation of church from education, pro gay marriage and multiculturalism.

I imagine there's not many of those parties about back home

johnnyskeleton Moderate
#30

ammuctsngames said:
again I am aware that my descriptions are ott stereotypes, the only question I am asking is whether you would rather live under extreme right and consrevative policies, or extreme left liberal policies


I'd happily live under "extreme" libertarian policies, because such policies would amount to "Leave people alone and let them get on with their lives without unwarranted government interference."

No, I would not want to live under extreme conservative or left-wing policies.


While I don't agree with the libertarian viewpoint, if we have to have some fom of extreme government it is the preferable option.

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