Clegg Registered User
#181

irishbucsfan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nZH6lLpI

Here you go. Look at Ferris' try. That is a scrum half doing his job. I don't know if you're aware of what that is supposed to look like.


Perfect pop pass from Heaslip tbf

irishbucsfan Registered User
#182

pappyodaniel said:
When I say inferior it isn't meant to slate Eoin Reddan. We have seen plenty of him over the last few years and when given chances to nail down the no9 jersey when his competition for the jersey was TO'L and Stringer he never took it. Oh, and please don't say he had to fight Kidney as well!


What exactly HAVE we seen of him over the past few years though?

We saw him start at 9 when we played New Zealand that time and looked like we'd finally start playing a brand of rugby that can work under current rules. Then get dropped.

We saw him start at 9 when we beat England in our only good performance in the 6 Nations in 2011. Then get dropped.

We saw him start at 9 against Australia, arguably one of our most famous wins ever. Then get dropped.


He has done everything possible. I know for a fact there is history between himself and Kidney, but I know that sounds like conspirational rubbish and that's a fair enough conclusion to draw without any evidence to support it. Why exactly do you think he hasn't nailed down a spot so far?

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irishbucsfan Registered User
#183

jm08 said:
assuming nothing. if the points are presented (whether penalties or conversions), it is detrimental to the team's performance if the designated kicker isn't getting them.


This is completely off topic. And a completely pointless conversation to have when the man you are attempting to discredit just had a great performance with the boot.

pappyodaniel Registered User
#184

irishbucsfan said:
He has done everything possible. I know for a fact there is history between himself and Kidney, but I know that sounds like conspirational rubbish and that's a fair enough conclusion to draw without any evidence to support it. Why exactly do you think he hasn't nailed down a spot so far?


My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.

#185

pappyodaniel said:
My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.


Not really. TOL's form in the 2010 6N was as bad as it ever was, the France game in particular. He was persisted with for another full 12 months until he got injured in the 2011 6N.

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jm08 Registered User
#186

irishbucsfan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nZH6lLpI

Here you go. Look at Ferris' try. That is a scrum half doing his job. I don't know if you're aware of what that is supposed to look like.


and is it not the job of a scrumhalf to be able to tackle as well. Kanio ran over him for Read's try. He also missed a few others that didn't make the highlights.

Here is a sample of reddan tap and go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSa41aP0f8&feature=related

irishbucsfan Registered User
#187

jm08 said:
and is it not the job of a scrumhalf to be able to tackle as well. Kanio ran over him for Read's try. He also missed a few others that didn't make the highlights.

Here is a sample of reddan tap and go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSa41aP0f8&feature=related


Kaino handed off Ferris before that and passed before he even got to Reddan. I suppose Ferris can't tackle either.

If you want to select your 9s based on an ability to tackle Jerome Kaino in the open field then good luck finding one anywhere.

Reddan's defense has never been a problem. He used to be a headless possession waster and I hated him (and argued for Boss to start many times over him), but in 2010 he became a far better player thanks to good coaching and added experience and eventually went on to prove me wrong. Now he has a great and extremely succesful partnership with Sexton and has lead Ireland to their only decent performances against good opposition in recent times. (again apart from Wales 2010 imo)


And I would agree he wasn't great in the ML final. Neither were the rest of the team. They must have been busy the week before or something? Doesn't change the fact he's regularly shown himself to be a top scrum half at all levels.

emmet02 Registered User
#188

pappyodaniel said:
My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.


The last time T'OL played for Ireland Murray had played 9 games of pro rugby.

I'm unsure of your point though, Reddan and Murray are very different players. Murray a big physical player with usually a good boot, who takes a lot out of the ball.
Reddan an inconsistent player by his nature, try's thinks sometimes that he probably shouldn't have, but overall has had far far far far far more success with his games than failure.

Again, depending on the game we go for, one or the other is preferable. Against teams like Scotland and Italy, a strangle gameplan with Murray keeping us composed for a bit before we "unleash the mad dog", can work really very well. Slow attrition to break em down, before upping the tempo with Reddan.

If we go for that gameplan against France, I'm not sure how well it would work. I'd be very afraid that if it was tight, that we wouldn't see the substitution made, and we'd be gutting our own gameplan.

Foxtrol Registered User
#189

What I can't fathom is what Murray has done to get preferential treatment when you compare him to other players trying to break into the Irish set up. Healy, SOB and Ross consistently outplayed their competition for prolonged periods at HC level and still were not given a proper look in until injuries to the starters (and the bench option in some cases).

I'm all for blooding young players but all the evidence of Kidney's reign as coach shows that he hasn't been, unless forced into the situation. Yes Murray has potential but so does many other young Irish players who have to pay their dues before making the squad. Apart from Kidney's apparent desire for a Mike Phillips clone, can anyone give me reasons why Murray is being chosen as the anointed sole young player that to parachute into the starting team with a handful of professional games?

skregs Registered User
#190

jm08 said:
1. whether he deserved motm or not, its obvious he wasn't as poor as some people are trying to make out here.

2. reddan gets turned over easily. (example is he got turned over against Munster in teh magners final with a quick tap and go which resulted in munster getting another try). by the way, no one is mentioning how poor reddan was in the head to head in the magners final and schmidt started Boss in the most recent game with munster in the aviva for the magners.

4. are you crazy. the abs put 20 points on us at home against a full team. the performance in new zealand down to 14 men (when Heislip was carded) was a better performance.



Several things are fairly clear from your posts:

1: You're a Munster fan.
2: Your experience of Leinster matches is exclusively based off Munster v Leinster matches in recent history.
3: You're about 13 years old and you really don't understand much about rugby from an on the field perspective.

No one is saying Murray is crap. People are saying he shouldn't be starting for Ireland because (a) he's slow to rucks, (b) he doesn't play the ball from the base of the ruck and (c) he tries to run the ball himself far too often, which is a fairly stupid thing for a SH to do.

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RuggieBear Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum!
#191

sigh

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