sxt Registered User
#61

walshb said:
But I think he's applying it across the board. To the whole lot. Yes, one could pick out a man here and there in either era and say this.

BTW, I believe his reference was in relation to Ali and Klit. No way, no way. Technique is subjective. I would pick Ali as a far better technician in every sense, and a better athlete too in comparison to the Klits.

The Klits are quite stiff and robotic in their approach, position and movement. Formean to me looks a lot looser and fluid; and as for technique, what is this "much better" reference. Overall, George's boxing technique is as good as any man today at HW. Prime Foreman and past it Foreman.

Reread his post #55: Yes, he is saying that the Klits have a "much better" boxing technique than Muhammad Ali. I don't know. I'm flummoxed!


The ability to control and dominate, every opponent you ever fight , not get hit often , rarely loose rounds ever , and systematically breaking down and easily stopping nearly every boxer you face with clinical and accurate punches, involves having a pretty good boxing technique

The technique of boxers from the 70's are alot different to the klits , alot of the fighters back then were brawlers , or just slug it out to the end fighters

The klits could slug it out but it leaves the result somewhat up in the air...


Ali vs Foreman or frazier could have gone either way

#62

I think the match up for Ali is unfavoruable so give this to Vitali.

Someone mentioned his height, its pretty clear if you have watched the Klitschko brothers a lot, or seen them together a few times that Vitali is about 3 inches taller. It really is clear as day, at the Haye fight Vitali was standing behind Wlad and was visibly taller for anyone who needs a fresh memory of them?

Ali didnt hit hard enough to trouble Vitali in my book, Vitali has a great defense and a great chin. Just can't see how Ali wins the fight (of course you would never rule him out completely cause its Ali).

Boxing is all about styles, who matches up well with who etc, and for me, Vitali matches up well against Ali. someone mentioned Vitali's peak being 25-29 years of age? I think thats a little bit on the young side, the experience he gained etc made him a better boxer at 31-35 ish then when he was younger.

He is so hard to beat, just cant see how Ali wins.

This Lewis fight irritates me, a bad cut can happen to anyone, absolutely anyone when fighting a guy with the kind of Power Lewis had. Vitali was 2 rounds up in the fight and Lewis was fading fast in that fight, in another couple of rounds without the cut I think Vitali puts Lewis down.

Prime Lewis could have been a different story, but there was clearly one dominant fighter in that fight and it wasnt the winner.

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walshb Registered User
#63

kryogen said:
IPrime Lewis could have been a different story, but there was clearly one dominant fighter in that fight and it wasnt the winner.


That is far too generous. I had Vitali ahead by a rd, possibly two rds. The judges had it by 2 points. No way was he dominating. Lewis was well in that fight, and the exchanges were tough, heavy and ebb and flow!

Vitali was doing very well, and deserved to be ahead, but you could not say he was dominanting Lewis.

cowzerp Registered User
#64

walshb said:
That is far too generous. I had Vitali ahead by a rd, possibly two rds. The judges had it by 2 points. No way was he dominating. Lewis was well in that fight, and the exchanges were tough, heavy and ebb and flow!

Vitali was doing very well, and deserved to be ahead, but you could not say he was dominanting Lewis.



2 rounds up at least-the judges if anything would have been more in favour of the more local fighter, Vitali was out skilling and out fighting Lewis and Lewis to me was better With age than in his younger years where Vitali would have easily beat him, like the time Bruno was dominating him till his weak chin got caught

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walshb Registered User
#65

cowzerp said:
2 rounds up at least-the judges if anything would have been more in favour of the more local fighter, Vitali was out skilling and out fighting Lewis and Lewis to me was better With age than in his younger years where Vitali would have easily beat him, like the time Bruno was dominating him till his weak chin got caught


Better with age, possibly, but not aged 38. It's as plain as the nose on your face that the Lewis who fought Vitali was not as fast, fit or as good as the one from the mid to late 90s. It's clear, yet he still beat Vitali, and held his own quite well.

And, how would Vitali easily beats Lewis from say 1991 or 1992 or 1993? How? What from Vitali's record would suggest that.

Show me a dominant Vitali performance against an opponent remotely as big and talented as a 1991 or 1992 or 1993 Lennox Lewis?

cowzerp Registered User
#66

walshb said:

And, how would Vitali easily beats Lewis from say 1991 or 1992 or 1993? How? What from Vitali's record would suggest that.

Show me a dominant Vitali performance against an opponent remotely as big and talented as a 1991 or 1992 or 1993 Lennox Lewis?


Easily, Lewis back then was like a really poor version of Vitali, and 10 times more negative too,Vitali had more power and was a better boxer with a better chin.

Lewis looks better than he is due to beating 2 washed up legends in Tyson and Holyfield

walshb Registered User
#67

cowzerp said:
Easily, Lewis back then was like a really poor version of Vitali, and 10 times more negative too,he had more power and was a better boxer with a better chin.

Lewis looks better than he is due to beating 2 washed up legends in Tyson and Holyfield


I really dispute the claim that Vitali had more power at any point in either man's career. Lewis was two things back then, clearly faster, and certainly fitter. Two key components that lacked when he met, and beat Vitali in the nougties. Also, I don't see Vitali knocking out Lewis. It too hail maty shots to do this to Lewis. Vtali never commited to those types of shots.

cowzerp Registered User
#68

I don't believe Lewis was any better at any stage of his career than his last fight, he tired because he was been bashed, most people don't tire when dominating fights, this was a dogged fight and both where working very hard, mostly with Vitali on top, and Lewis fading, he only retired as he knew Vitali had him beat and that was after promising a rematch.

Lewis was at his best in his last few years, I'm sure of this, he was very average in the younger years.

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walshb Registered User
#69

cowzerp said:
I don't believe Lewis was any better at any stage of his career than his last fight.


Well, that is you view, one I think that would be really in the minortiy. The vast majority of fight fans I believe would argue that Lenox Lewis when he fought Vitali was not near his best. He was 38 at that time, having been in many fights, some quite tough ones too. I would also add that I reckon many who rate Vitali better would also conceded that Lewis at 38 wasn't near his best.

#70

Holyfield wasn't past it when he met Lewis, he had just come off 2 superb performances off a (past prime, but still good) Mike Tyson.

Lewis beat Tua too, not an easy fight by any stretch.

Lewis is out and out the biggest fighter who Vitali ever faced, and will ever face.

tryingmybestt Registered User
#71

The results are in:

The winner is ALI !

cowzerp Registered User
#72

RiseToTheTop said:
Holyfield wasn't past it when he met Lewis, he had just come off 2 superb performances off a (past prime, but still good) mike Tyson .


both Tyson and Holyfield where finished, just because Holyfield kept going does not mean he was not past it, Holyfield was banned for having a dodgy heart before that, god fixed it

#73

Different doctors have different opinions.

Do you have evidence that Holyfield was finished?

walshb Registered User
#74

If Holyfield was past it when he met Lewis, then Lewis was past it when he met Vitali.

I believe Holyfield was past it when he met Lewis.

BTW, there is IMO a difference between being past it and being finished.

Ali in 1976 was past it. In 1980 he was finished, to use one example.

Holyfield when he met lewis was past it, he was not finished.

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plasmaguy Registered User
#75

This is a no brainer for me.

Ali would win, easily enough.

He was one of the fastest if not the fastest Heavyweight of all time, yet still had an imposing physique, a solid Jab, and knockout power, and he fought some massive men not far off the size of the Klitchkos. Their size might save them for a round or two longer, but that's it. Once he got into his rhythm, Ali was pretty much unbeatable, and that was in a very tough and competitive era of boxing, compared to today.

The Klitchskos are slow and fairly useless in close. Ali would have the speed, experience and skill to take care of them. They wouldn't last to the 8th round.

As for hitting power, I reckon Foreman and Earnie Shavers probably hit harder than the Klitschkos, in fact I'm certain of it.

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