#1

Ok guys...I'll put my hand up now. I'm not a virtual horse backer. I do however like the dogs, golf and the odd soccer.

However, I was in a shop recently and witnessed a fight between a customer and a ladbrokes staff member. Presuming this guy was a degenerate I stepped in and told him to calm down. He told me what happened and it struck a chord with me.

When he left screaming blue murder, I stayed to do some tests. This is a nasty little scam and also very, very dangerous.

This is what they do. Some of you may be aware or Lucksin downs (not sure if that's exactly the right name)...it's ladbrokes own virtual racing.

Now, this punter placed a bet on this and somehow won. When he went to collect, no doubt thanking his lucky stars for this cartoon getting him out of a hole...he was told he was late with the bet and he could get his stake back. He was obviously furious, claiming he wasn't late. It's here on the screen the shop attendant said.

When the man left I began recording the actual off times, and comparing them to the off times that determine a winner and loser. Every time, they were out by 8 seconds.

So..when the countdown is on, the real cut off point is approx 9 seconds. Not when it counts down to 0 as punters would obviously expect.

Maybe it's just a mistake you may ask?

Think about it...how many people would have backed a horse in this time and the horse lose...they're not going to ask for their money back cause they thought it was fair game.

This is a major scam that they should be made to answer immediately. Unfortunately they could rectify it now..but of course the records of past off times will be recorded.

I found this guy and told him what I discovered and now he's over the moon. I placed a 5 euro bet with 8 seconds to spare. I showed the attendant the slip as we both watched the time tick down. We both agreed it was in time. The horse lost. I gave him the docket and what did it say? Money back - late bet.

Daisy M Registered User
#2

I work with a bookmakers not Ladbrokes and this is what happens with the virtuals. I dont know why but if we take a virtual a few seconds after the off it goes in as been late off. We are able to over ride our systems and pay out which is something we always do if its not long off. I dont think Ladbrokes staff have the same flexibility. There is some scam or other going on with the virtuals even the bookmakers dont know exactly what it is, but once the race has gone off then all bets have to be void. If its a regular then we give can choose to give a little leeway but not for a stranger especially one betting large amounts on virtual only.

#3

But the point here, which I know you didn't miss, is that ladbrokes are voiding the races 10 seconds before the official "off".

This is a disgrace.

1 person has thanked this post
ft9 Registered User
#4

Backing virtuals is a disgrace. Your own fault for betting against a computer really, and you know its a scam..... Do the maths.

3 people have thanked this post
#5

Oh FFS. That's not the issue.

I personally believe that backing roulette, all weather racing...certain Irish handicaps are the basically the same trash as virtuals. But this is not the issue.

Ladbrokes have potentially been raking millions from poor saps for years, via cheating.

So let's take the moral high ground out of this because in my opinion no gambler has the right to feel superior to another, regardless of what they bet on.

1 person has thanked this post
#6

abouttobebanned said:
Ok guys...I'll put my hand up now. I'm not a virtual horse backer. I do however like the dogs, golf and the odd soccer.

However, I was in a shop recently and witnessed a fight between a customer and a ladbrokes staff member. Presuming this guy was a degenerate I stepped in and told him to calm down. He told me what happened and it struck a chord with me.

When he left screaming blue murder, I stayed to do some tests. This is a nasty little scam and also very, very dangerous.

This is what they do. Some of you may be aware or Lucksin downs (not sure if that's exactly the right name)...it's ladbrokes own virtual racing.

Now, this punter placed a bet on this and somehow won. When he went to collect, no doubt thanking his lucky stars for this cartoon getting him out of a hole...he was told he was late with the bet and he could get his stake back. He was obviously furious, claiming he wasn't late. It's here on the screen the shop attendant said.

When the man left I began recording the actual off times, and comparing them to the off times that determine a winner and loser. Every time, they were out by 8 seconds.

So..when the countdown is on, the real cut off point is approx 9 seconds. Not when it counts down to 0 as punters would obviously expect.

Maybe it's just a mistake you may ask?

Think about it...how many people would have backed a horse in this time and the horse lose...they're not going to ask for their money back cause they thought it was fair game.

This is a major scam that they should be made to answer immediately. Unfortunately they could rectify it now..but of course the records of past off times will be recorded.

I found this guy and told him what I discovered and now he's over the moon. I placed a 5 euro bet with 8 seconds to spare. I showed the attendant the slip as we both watched the time tick down. We both agreed it was in time. The horse lost. I gave him the docket and what did it say? Money back - late bet.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63849546

#7

Thanks for that.

I think people are tending to ignore this because it's about virtual racing.

However, even though it's not my preferred bet, Im going to chase this up with ladbrokes. This lucks downs is their own private video game and they have complete control over it. All the times for sprint valley and cartoon dogs are spot on, but with their own one, they have this 8 second delay.

#8

I brought the subject up awhile ago.

It's a bit unfair to call it a true "scam".

Having studied it in detail this is what I found.

If you hand a docket to the cashier around 2 seconds before the off time of a virtual race, again it is scanned and handed back it will show a time of about 8 seconds after the off time.

Solutions?

shop allows a 15 second leeway on off time or

they shut down off time ten seconds before the off.

Easy to fix then.

But let me draw your attention to an incident that happened in Ladbrokes Limerick Office recently.

The customer was on the radio. she explain that five of them do the euromillions every Friday. They all place €2 on the same 3 numbers and get five seperate tickets with their indivual names written on each of them. Odds 1500/1.

On this particularr Friday she as running late. The bets were placed and accepted at around 7.55 pm. The actual euromillions draw takes place at 8.30 pm.

Out came their numbers and they believed they had won €15,000 between them.

Happy days ? No because when they went to collect they were told that their bet was late ! the cut off time being 7.30 pm.

No payout. In terms of Ladbrokes UK & Irish T/O , €15k would be tiny and good PR.


But what is happening in both cases is , Ladbrokes taking all bets and when the staff process a late bet and it wins they rely on shop rule not to pay out and don't make it their business to inform customers that they have placed a void bet when in loses


What that man should do is, request Ladbrokes send out someone from head office and he can demonstrate to them that bet as placed before the off time and the delay in the off time shown on the bet is something they have to address in the interest of fairness.

1 person has thanked this post
#9

abouttobebanned said:
Thanks for that.

I think people are tending to ignore this because it's about virtual racing.

However, even though it's not my preferred bet, Im going to chase this up with ladbrokes. This lucks downs is their own private video game and they have complete control over it. All the times for sprint valley and cartoon dogs are spot on, but with their own one, they have this 8 second delay.


agree. the fact that it is virtual doesn't mean it should be any less fair.

I get the odd good win on Steepledowns & Portman Park ....(don't play often)


But ...on Luckin Downs ? NEVER had a decent win. My suspicion....Computer pocesses all bets placed before off and race outcome set to gauranteed a very good return.

The "late" ones are not captured and throw out their figures.

My policy....if you want to do virtual...use anything but Luckin Dons or Ladbrokes exclusively owned virtual. I once got over €2k on a €1 CTC at Sprint Valley

#10

I understand what you're saying but the more you look at it, the more you can see that they know it's happening and are not doing anything about it. This is a scam.

whatsupdoc? Registered User
#11

Isn't Lucksin Downs exclusive to Ladbrokes.
Sprint Valley, Portman park are available to all on SIS.
Different bookies have different offs for virtuals.
Lads call NMB around 5 seconds before the off on Lucksin.
SV & Portman have a countdown on the screen to NMB.
Some bookies will pay on a small delayed bet on a virtual but not many for a very good reason.
I know for a fact there is a quicker feed using a head piece (that's all I'll say ) and some "punters" take advantage of the quicker feed.
This is why some of the bookies call NMB earlier then they should to protect themselves.
I was in Ladbrokes today and couldn't believe the number of punters who were backing the virtuals before the real racing started.

#12

Ladbrokes do not call no more bets before the countdown finishes on lucksin downs.

shangri la Registered User
#13

The last time I placed a bet on a horse in ladbrokes was about 3 years ago. They guarantee uk and irish races. I backed the horse at 3/1 and wrote the odds on the docket 30 minutes before the off. He won at 4/1. They paid me out at 3/1. I said hang on... I had to tell them he went off at bigger odds and get paid at 4/1 when all other bookies do it automatically.

how did you find out when the cut of time for betting according to the tellers computer was?

#14

Not sure.

Ladbrokes have admitted that there was a problem with their timings and it has been rectified now they say. They were found out.

If this was a regulated business...like it should be...there should be an ad in the paper from ladbrokes saying that due to an error, 1000000 euro will be returned to customers.

phantasmagoria Registered User
#15

Tbh this scenario presented is highly unlikely. The countdown for lucksin downs allows for a bet to be placed on the off and it to be recognised as on time. Op has not taken into account the time taken for the slip to be taken off the counter and processed through the scanner. This all adds on seconds. If there's a delay it will return as late but that can be down to customer giving insufficient time for the bet to be processed or the cashier not doing so in a timely manner. With regard to betting on virtual racing, arguably you are more likely to get a large priced winner as its not based on form. Its a popular betting medium that is completely legit and above board.

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