lazygal Registered User
#1

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.

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#2

lazygal said:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.


Shocking too how sentencing for the original crime was reduced so dramatically and the perpetrator considered a 'good family man' - who just happened to rape a child on the side.

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lazygal Registered User
#3

And went on to rape a second child in his line of work.

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#4

Her anonymity has been respected. As was the perpetrator’s – until March 2002, when he was sentenced to three and a half years for the kidnap and sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl who had hailed his taxi.

Back in 1992, when charged with unlawful carnal knowledge of Miss X, he delayed the trial for more than two years amid legal arguments that he could not have a fair trial. In the trial, he tried to pin the blame for Miss X’s pregnancy on a young local boy until DNA evidence drawn from the miscarried foetus proved decisive. A total sentence of 14 years was subsequently reduced to four by the Court of Criminal Appeal, mainly on the basis that he was unlikely to reoffend and had emerged from psychiatric reports as “a hard-working good family man”.

Much was made in the judgment of the sufferring caused by the loss of his business as a result of the case. The learned judges also emphasised the distinction made by the man’s counsel “between this case, serious though it is, and a case of out-and-out rape”. At no stage in the process was there any discussion of the coercion implicit in a sexual assault on a 12-year-old by a middle-aged man.

He was released in May 1997. Just over two years later he attacked the 15-year-old girl in his taxi.


When I think about what that poor girl and her family had to go through for it all to end up like this ...

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28064212 Registered User
#5

lazygal said:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.

The X case is the most damning indictment of politicians in this country. Forget about the bailouts, FF's ridiculously bad handling of the Celtic Tiger, the e-voting fiasco, the delays in legalising homosexual acts, condoms and the pill, even the likes of Haughey. The hypocrisy and downright arrogance of spitting on both our constitution and the result of two referendums is something that every politician who has sat in the Dáil Eireann chambers has been complicit in

Since the 1992 ruling, successive governments have been absolutely criminal in not legislating for the X Case. From the date of that ruling, it has been 100% constitutional for a woman who is at risk of suicide to procure an abortion, yet any doctor providing such an abortion would be found guilty under the Offences Against the Person Act (1861). It is an absurd situation, and the negligence of the Dáil in addressing this direct contradiction between the law and the constitution is astounding.

Since the ruling, there has been, not one, but two referendums asking the people of Ireland if they want to remove the right to an abortion where the threat of suicide exists. Both have been rejected. And still, this absurd situation continues. For comparison, the most recent amendment, the 29th (allowing for reducing judges' pay) was passed on October 27th 2011. The legislation implementing those changes was passed on the 7th of December, 41 days later.

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jaja321 Registered User
#6

I was reading this the other day and found myself seething with anger. There has been a total lack of leadership in this regard. Hopefully the ruling on the ABC case will finally have an impact. The European Court of Human Rights ruled that Ireland's failure to implement the right to an abortion when a woman's life is at risk violates Article 8 of the Convention. Apparently our new government have said they will establish an expert group to advise how to implement the ABC judgment. Remains to be seen what will be done...

28064212 Registered User
#7

jaja321 said:
I was reading this the other day and found myself seething with anger. There has been a total lack of leadership in this regard. Hopefully the ruling on the ABC case will finally have an impact. The European Court of Human Rights ruled that Ireland's failure to implement the right to an abortion when a woman's life is at risk violates Article 8 of the Convention. Apparently our new government have said they will establish an expert group to advise how to implement the ABC judgment. Remains to be seen what will be done...

Let's see...
1998: The Government establish an Inter-departmental Working Group on Abortion supervised by a cabinet sub-committee

1999 (September): Green Paper on Abortion published. Seven possible options are outlined.

2000 (May, June, July): Interested parties and organisations, including representatives from the medical profession, special interest groups and faith groups, are invited to address the All-Party Oireachtas Committee.

2000 (November): All-Party Oireachtas Committee publishes its report. After nearly 12 months, the committee fails to reach a consensus outlining three different approaches, reflecting the views of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.

2000 (November): A Cabinet subcommittee on abortion convenes, chaired by the Minister for Health, Mr Martin. This subcommittee is to eventually make a recommendation to the Government.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/abortion/issues/chronology.htm
The court [European Court of Human Rights] has already criticised the State for failing to act on recommendations of the three previous government committees that have already considered Ireland’s regulation of abortion,” chief executive of the association Niall Behan said.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0915/1224304143020.html
...the Green Paper 1999 noted that...
...The political assessment of that Paper by the Committee on the Constitution led to the Fifth Progress Report which found that...

Despite therefore the recognition by those bodies that further legal clarity was required as regards lawful abortions in Ireland, no agreement was reached on any reform proposals, no legislation and/or constitutional referenda were proposed and the Government confirmed to the Court that no legislative reform was envisaged.

Source - ECHR ruling on the ABC case: http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2010/2032.html#para265

I wouldn't hold my breath on the Irish goverment's expediency in this matter, "expert" group or not

jaja321 Registered User
#8

Yeah, which is why I said remains to be seen what will be done. I believe the 'expert' group are to submit a report in 6 months.. I'm sure once they have submitted their recommendations, things will still be dragged out by the government for as long as possible. I'm just hoping (not confident, but hoping!) that there might finally be a shift in this.

iguana Moderator
#9

I can't believe that a convicted rapist was allowed to keep his taxi license. A taxi driver is someone who is in a position of trust to women. As much as most women will never normally get into a car with a stranger, we do so every time we hail a taxi. Someone who was convicted of any form of violent crime should never be allowed do such a job again.

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lazygal Registered User
#10

Ivana Bacik has a piece on it today : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0206/1224311335106.html

which is the actual anniversary of the case.

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jaja321 Registered User
#11

Thanks for sharing lazygal.. ... weren't the Labour party the ones calling on the last Govt to do something about this and to finally legislate? I wonder now that they are in Govt will they actually have the leadership to do so

MsLaura Registered User
#12

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

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lazygal Registered User
#13

MsLaura said:
Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.



Your experiance isn't that of everyone. The Irish people have voted in favour of providing abortion in Ireland to Irish women, albeit in limited circumstances. The problem is successive Governments have done nothing to allow women to exercise this right. Would you compel a woman pregnant after rape to carry a child to term, no matter what? Would you lock her up to ensure the child is born?

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hattoncracker Registered User
#14

MsLaura said:
Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.



That's how you feel, but thats not what all women want. No one has any right to try and tell a woman how to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

Asking a woman to go through a pregnancy after the trauma of a rape, and then asking her to give the baby up for adoption, two traumatic events alone, never mind simultaneously, is just wrong.

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Wibbs Je suis un Rock star
#15

MsLaura let's dial back the emotive language like "murder" please. You have your opinion and that's fine, just remember it's your opinion, it may not be anothers.

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