deirdremf Registered User
#1

Aodh Rua said:
When two nouns come together the second noun is put in the genitive. Fair enough. But why is it 'barr dorais' but 'dath an tí', 'hata an fhir' and so on? If 'barr dorais' means 'top of the door', why can't 'dath tí' could mean 'colour of the house'? Doras, teach and fear are all masculine so can somebody enlighten me here with a rule? Thanks a million.


'barr dorais' top of A door
'dath an tí', 'hata an fhir' the colour of THE house, the hat of THE man/ the man's hat

I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.

2 people have thanked this post
#2

deirdremf said:
'barr dorais' top of A door
'dath an tí', 'hata an fhir' the colour of THE house, the hat of THE man/ the man's hat

I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.


Ah, completely. Thanks very much.

#3

leis an turas chuig an gcistin anraith = with his journey to the soup kitchen?

Not sure about what happens 'anraith'.

deirdremf Registered User
#4

Aodh Rua said:
leis an turas chuig an gcistin anraith = with his journey to the soup kitchen?

Not sure about what happens 'anraith'.

Nothing, as it happens.
This is a great site for grammatical forms of words:
http://193.1.97.44/focloir/

2 people have thanked this post
#5

deirdremf said:
Nothing, as it happens.
This is a great site for grammatical forms of words:
http://193.1.97.44/focloir/


Thanks again. 2300 words down; lots of grammar checking and 700 words to go.

#6

Just checked that site. I was putting ''Más rud é go bhféadfaidh sé anraith a fháil, shíl sé, bheadh sé beo go ceann lá eile.' (if it was a thing that he could get soup, he thought, he would live for another day'.)

But having looked at the site it should be 'Más rud é go bhféada sé anraith a fháil, shíl sé, bheadh sé beo go ceann lá eile.'??

deirdremf Registered User
#7

Aodh Rua said:
Just checked that site. I was putting ''Más rud é go bhféadfaidh sé anraith a fháil, shíl sé, bheadh sé beo go ceann lá eile.' (if it was a thing that he could get soup, he thought, he would live for another day'.)

But having looked at the site it should be 'Más rud é go bhféada sé anraith a fháil, shíl sé, bheadh sé beo go ceann lá eile.'??

bhféadfadh

Oíche mhaith!!!

#8

A quick question for anybody out there: does the gender of the noun matter at all in the plural?

So far it seems that the adjective qualifying a noun must also be plural - e.g. laethanta deacra.
Does gender play any role in the interaction between adjectives and nouns in the plural?

Grma.

Aard Registered User
#9

I did a bit of googling and found this:
"Séimhiú ar aidiacht i ndiaidh ainmfhocail san uimhir iolra a chríochnaíonn ar chonsan, m.sh. capaill mhóra, crainn ghlasa; consan lom ar aidiacht i ndiaidh ainmfhocail san uimhir iolra a chríochnaíonn ar ghuta, m.sh. buachaillí dána, cailíní breátha"

Basically, if the noun ends in a consonant in the plural, the adjective gets a séimhiú. If it ends in a vowel, no change. Never actually knew this myself!

http://www.ucc.ie/acad/mi/cursai/gramadachnua/grnua4.html

pog it Registered User
#10

That must be because of the consan caol more so than the consonant itself.

Aard Registered User
#11

Yeah, caol+séimhiú seems to be the pattern throughout the language.

deirdremf Registered User
#12

Aard said:
I did a bit of googling and found this:
"Séimhiú ar aidiacht i ndiaidh ainmfhocail san uimhir iolra a chríochnaíonn ar chonsan, m.sh. capaill mhóra, crainn ghlasa; consan lom ar aidiacht i ndiaidh ainmfhocail san uimhir iolra a chríochnaíonn ar ghuta, m.sh. buachaillí dána, cailíní breátha"

Basically, if the noun ends in a consonant in the plural, the adjective gets a séimhiú. If it ends in a vowel, no change. Never actually knew this myself!

http://www.ucc.ie/acad/mi/cursai/gramadachnua/grnua4.html

But only if the consonant is preceeded by an "i", i.e. if it is a narrow consonant.

Aard Registered User
#13

I can't even think of any plurals that end in a broad consonant tbh.

Enkidu Registered User
#14

Aodh Rua said:
A quick question for anybody out there: does the gender of the noun matter at all in the plural?

So far it seems that the adjective qualifying a noun must also be plural - e.g. laethanta deacra.
Does gender play any role in the interaction between adjectives and nouns in the plural?

Grma.

Irish has no gender in the plural Aodh, for historical reasons.

Enkidu Registered User
#15

Actually in older Irish (circa 1900) the plural could affect the adjective beyond the slender consonant + lenite rule of today.

In the genitive plural you had eclipses:
mná na stocaí mbána.

In the dative singular as well:
Chuimhnigh sé ar an sparán agus ar an bhFear nDubh

Really helpful for old books!

Also watch out for the dative plural:
leis na fearaibh - with the men

It's basically always (nominative/normal singular) + (a)ibh.

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