detective Registered User
#16

krd said:

1. Police are not prison guards. But they wear uniforms and have powers.

2. In the Stanford experiment the guards and prisoners are selected at random. Very quickly the guards begin to act outrageously.

3. What happened in Waterford, with Garda giving a beating to that guy, that shows the kind of warped psychological behaviour you see in the Stanford Prison experiment. They were sober professionals dealing with a drunk. What happened should not have happened. Even, people who attempt to make excuses for the garda involved, are falling into the same trap.

4. Police shouldn't use gratuitous and excessive force, ever. You could see it in those protests in New York, where a policeman, who no reason (there's plenty of video to see it from all angles), sprays some girls in the face with pepper spray. He wasn't under threat, there wasn't a disturbance - something must've clicked inside his head.

5. My own experience of being arrested (on the basis I believe of not liking da look ah me). I was made strip to my underwear, I believe for no other purpose just to humiliate me. I was even questioned about a photograph of my ex-girlfriend that was in my wallet. Again, for no other purpose but to humiliate me.


1. I'm quite familiar with the experiment you refer to in particular. However I disagree with what you believe in here. Police actually have way more power than prison guards. That being because they are tasked with enforcing societies laws. Prison guards only have to maintain order within a confined space. Comparing them is like chalk and cheese IMO.

2. Actually at first the prisoners started acting outrageously. The guards had to control this outburst. It was subsequent to this the guards began thinking of ways of controlling the prisoners who outnumbered them and they chose unruly methods. However this was 36 hours into the experiment. It's very rare that police have someone in custody for that lengthy of time.

3. They were trying to deal with a violent and uncooperative drunk for the record and their level of force appeared fine until he was subdued. It was at this point the unthinkable happened. And you're 100% correct in saying it shouldn't have.

4. I'm not aware of the NYPD case at all. I know not of any provocation, indiscipline or otherwise on behalf of police or protester. Police can only use violence if it is legal, proportional and necessary.

5. I know nothing of your case so I cannot comment.

#17

detective said:
Depends on the defintion of success? Court, discipline etc.


garda ombudsman commission costs on average 10 million euro each year.In the years 2007-2010(inclusive)they secured a measly 5 convictions out of 30 thousand complaints approx.There was around 8,800 complaints in 2010.The figures mean that your chances of a successful conclusion to a complaint about a garda are miniscule around 0.015 percent.Almost lotto odds,so for the vast majority its a pointless exercise writing to the garda ombudsman.

#18

Ravomix said:
garda ombudsman commission costs on average 10 million euro each year.In the years 2007-2010(inclusive)they secured a measly 5 convictions out of 30 thousand complaints approx.There was around 8,800 complaints in 2010.The figures mean that your chances of a successful conclusion to a complaint about a garda are miniscule around 0.015 percent.Almost lotto odds,so for the vast majority its a pointless exercise writing to the garda ombudsman.


The figures could also indicate that there is a massive amount of false complaints made.

http://www.gra.cc/gardai_lose_trust.shtml

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#19

MagicSean said:
The figures could also indicate that there is a massive amount of false complaints made.

http://www.gra.cc/gardai_lose_trust.shtml


I know there would be some false complaints but that ratio surely suggests bias on their part,and i had a bad experience with them myself,cant say too much about it on here.

#20

Ravomix said:
I know there would be some false complaints but that ratio surely suggests bias on their part,and i had a bad experience with them myself,cant say too much about it on here.


Some? I disagree.

richiek83 Registered User
#21

A decision to prosecute or convict someone including a Garda Member rests with the DPP's office and the Courts. Convictions and Prosecutions is outisde the remit of the Garda Ombudsman's office. It is also outisde the remit of An Garda Síochána to prosecute or convict a member of the public.

The percentage of complaints or cases that makes it to Court in any society is only a small percentage of overall complaints/ cases that have been made. It is my belief that the Garda Síochána Act, 2005 which the office was set up under allows for certain types of complaints to be investigated by the Gardaí (see link below). This part of the Act was included by oireachtas and not the office itself.

richiek83 Registered User
#22
Cassie77 Registered User
#23

Hey all. Can some one please advise me. My Hubbie was falsely accused of criminal damage. He was in a different place at the time of the incident and was on CCTV. And has numerous witneasess Now the investigating gardai was told this and he told us that it would go no further. But a few months later we got a summons to appear in court. We had to hire a solicitor who later found out that the garda in question never looked at the CCTV nor did he take any statement from our witnesses. But what he did do was write up a statement himself on behalf of our witness. And signed his name. He also never mentioned to the chief superintendent that my. Hubbie was on cctv at the time. Now we have to pay our solicitor the best part of 1000 euro of which we don't have. Because of 1. A malicious allegation made by a lunatic. And 2. An negligent Garda. What my real question is is there any way we can reclaim this money cos as I said earlier we really don't have it.

amdublin Category Moderator
#24

Why not ask your solicitor?

#25

Cassie77 said:
Hey all. Can some one please advise me. My Hubbie was falsely accused of criminal damage. He was in a different place at the time of the incident and was on CCTV. And has numerous witneasess Now the investigating gardai was told this and he told us that it would go no further. But a few months later we got a summons to appear in court. We had to hire a solicitor who later found out that the garda in question never looked at the CCTV nor did he take any statement from our witnesses. But what he did do was write up a statement himself on behalf of our witness. And signed his name. He also never mentioned to the chief superintendent that my. Hubbie was on cctv at the time. Now we have to pay our solicitor the best part of 1000 euro of which we don't have. Because of 1. A malicious allegation made by a lunatic. And 2. An negligent Garda. What my real question is is there any way we can reclaim this money cos as I said earlier we really don't have it.


If the garda did indeed fake your friends statement this will come to light at trial. You can make a complaint to the Ombudsman and sue the state. You can also bring defamation proceedings against the lunatic.

Cassie77 Registered User
#26

I was thinking that but unfortunately we dont have the funds to pay for it. The Garda in question has approached my Hubbie in work looking for our witnesses number to sort it out. It's a nightmare at the moment. We have our back to the wall and don't know what to do.

Cassie77 Registered User
#27

Have done. But I think he is waiting for the trial. Which is this week. It's a nightmare.

CrackisWhack Registered User
#28

MagicSean said:
The figures could also indicate that there is a massive amount of false complaints made.

http://www.gra.cc/gardai_lose_trust.shtml


Personally, I have had one major bad experience with the Gardaí, which I recieved a conviction for, because I didn't have the balls to speak up in court, nor did I have the finances to hire a solicitor.

I can well imagine plenty of other people have had similar experiences to me, to see that figure of 0.015% is laughable to be honest, and just shows how well entwined the Ombudsman, Gardaí and the district judges are.

Cassie77 Registered User
#29

MagicSean said:
The figures could also indicate that there is a massive amount of false complaints made.

http://www.gra.cc/gardai_lose_trust.shtml


Personally, I have had one major bad experience with the Gardaí, which I recieved a conviction for, because I didn't have the balls to speak up in court, nor did I have the finances to hire a solicitor.

I can well imagine plenty of other people have had similar experiences to me, to see that figure of 0.015% is laughable to be honest, and just shows how well entwined the Ombudsman, Gardaí and the district judges are.



It's a nightmare really. We have nobody protecting us from this lunatic. We really can't trust the gardai anymore

blueythebear Registered User
#30

Cassie77 said:
It's a nightmare really. We have nobody protecting us from this lunatic. We really can't trust the gardai anymore


If you can access this CCTV footage and have all of these witnesses lined up, you should shop around solicitors looking for a no foal, no fee arrangement.

I'm sure in the current climate that you won't have a problem getting a solicitor to take on a criminal damage defence case for free where there is a good civil case arising out of the same matter.

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