Little bit (16.67%)
Not at all (16.67%)
please read the below research done by one of my close friend. His name is at very end of the article. So far I didn't know this big and holy place even though I have been living in Ireland since long. You may find some sentence framing / grammatical error and sorry for this inconvenience.
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Heaven on earth, "Tara" - in Ireland
Dedicated to Celtic Elders
[There is a great divine force that directs me to work and write. The divine force is the blessings of the Celtic Elders. I touch their feet and take their blessings before I begin.]
a) Spread the feeling of brotherhood amongst the Celts, Pagans and the Indians
b) Celts and Pagans to feel India, their home
c) Indians to respect the Celtic and Pagan elders, as Saints and organize their visits to India
d) Save the ancient Celtic and Pagan literature and sites]
This is a save “Tara, Ireland”, campaign by Celts, Pagans & Hindus.
I had the blessings of many Druid elders who have been guiding and motivating me. I decided to take a pilgrimage to the places that I understood, were of great importance to the Celts and Pagans, and me too. First time I met Druids when I visited few places in Brittney. The visit to Brittney transformed my life and I found great changes in my life.
Along with my wife I decided to visit other places of Celtic interest and took a circuitous rout to see places. I am aware of the fact that pilgrimage sites in India are of great importance for all Hindus. Our ancestors told us that one should visit these places. Earlier times the village folks in group would set out for pilgrimage to most of these places. There was a firm belief that those who visit the four of these most important pilgrimage places would make it to heaven. These are the “Char Dhams of Hindus”, the four abodes / seats. Char means four and Dham means the sacred places of Dharma. Even today people visit these four sacred places of worships. These places are Badrinath, Dwarka, Jagannath Puri and Rameshwaram. They are in four different directions of India. There were no faster means to travel and therefore they would go on foot or on horseback or may be on bullock carts or chariots and also faced many hardships, passed through deep forests, encountered looters, dacoits and also had to go through many Kingdoms. It was uncertain to return back home safe and sound. Many would die during the pilgrimage due to ill health. It was an important part of once life and therefore there were feasts before they departed and they would be escorted to far distances by close family members and so were celebrations on their safe return. The traditions still continues in India although the journey is faster and safer. Even today, old aged people are eager to be taken on pilgrimages by their sons. This concept of visiting Char Dham gave every Hindu the feeling of oneness in-spite of many languages, beliefs and Kingdoms. There were many Kingdoms but; it was the duty of every King to protect the people who were on a pilgrimage irrespective of their domicile as per Hindu Dharma.
My family members were surprised when I decided to pilgrimage the Celtic sites. They never ever heard of worship places in Europe. The places that I had in mind were Glastonbury, Stonehenge, Iona, Anglesey and others were Tara, New grange and also to Isles of Man. We were lucky enough to cover all except Isles of Man. We were lucky to get the blessings of Druid / Celt / Pagan Elders where ever we went. They all made us feel at home. This article is on Tara in County Meath, Ireland the sacred place for all.
The Druid Elders of Ireland explained me the importance of “Sacred Tara”, they are nice people. We got a calendar from them that would determine the festival time, showing the various positions of the Sun God with stars & their alignments and the sacred places of worships in Ireland. This was amazing and interesting.
“Tara” is a beautiful place on a mound with lush green grass covering huge open land. It was the seat of sacred thrown and the ruler of Tara was the ruler of Ireland. This belief continued for many centuries. The stone at top of Tara mound appears as ”Shiva Ling” to Hindus. There had been no explanation to the beautiful stone placed at top of the mould but it symbolizes Tara. There used to be ceremonies and rituals for the Druids and the Kings. There is a tree of fairies where people tie ribbons and cloths for their wishes. There used to be King’s palace close by surrounded by sacred wells where people used to throw coins for their wishes.
The Druid Elders mentioned that though “Tara” was the sacred seat for the Kings of Ireland but virtually it was the sacred place of living for the Druids only. It was a place where the Druids not only lived but had their own authority and the King had no say in what so ever manner in the administration of the town. No rule of the land applied to Druids. Druids made their own rules and were applicable among them only. They still celebrate many rituals at “Tara” even today.
The Heaven on Earth
Abode of Lord Lu & Indra
A sacred “Dham” for Hindus
The most important amongst the legendary rulers of “Tara” was the High King “Lu” who has many mythological tales.
In Sanskrit “Lu” means God Indra, the lord of pantheons? The word “Lu” one can find in Sanskrit dictionary as Lord Indra. He was the most worshiped God during Vedic times.
Why “Lu” is also called Lugh?
The “Oak” tree is a sacred tree of the Druids and “Oak” means the “Father of the trees”. In Sanskrit Oak is pronounced as “Agh”. There is no difference in pronunciation but mainly because of the Roman – English letters. “Agh” in Sanskrit means the “Original Tree”. Therefore “Oak” and “Agh” means the same. In Christianity the same word has been written little differently as “Ankh”, though it has almost similar meaning.
There are names of different species of the trees in Sanskrit that have been derived from “Agh”. The tree “Oak” / “Agh” / “Ankh” symbolizes creation. The God “Lu” is also the God of the tree “Oak” / “Agh”. Therefore “Lu” + “Agh” means the God “Lugh”. In Sanskrit also Lugh means God. Therefore Lugh is also a Sanskrit / Hindi word and it means God. . Therefore “Lu” and Indra are same.
How Lugh is God for Hindus ?
There are many examples to say that Lugh means God for Hindus. The following are few examples:
a. There are many Hindu Gods and Goddess whose name begins with Lugh. Like for Celts the festival of Lugnasa / Lugasad is for the God Lugh. Similarly Hindu god with Lugh is Indra and called Leekarshabh or (Leek or Lek or lugh + Arshab). Indra, the Indian Zeus, is a grand mythical figure. According to the Vedas (Indian Scripture), Indra is the Ruler of the Hindu Pantheon. He is also known as Sakra ("Powerful"), Vajri ("the Thunderer"), Purandara ("Destroyer of Cities"), Meghavahana ("Rider of the Clouds"), and Swargapati ("the Lord of Heaven"). Similarly Lagnadipati (Lug + An + Adi + Pati) means Ascendant Lord. There are many more such names which will be covered in subsequent articles.
b. On my visit to Ireland I was fortunate enough to attend the Lughnasadh ceremony with the Druid Elders. During the ceremony the Druid Elder chanted mantras and invited the Gods, Goddesses and the ancestors to bless. It appeared to me as if I was attending a Hindu ritual ceremony. I felt comfortable and was very happy. It was a sacred ceremony. I and my wife were fortunate enough to be included for the ceremony. Similar ceremonies are performed by Hindus. The name of the marriage time is called Lagan. We may write it as Lug (An). Lag (An) is the most auspicious time for the Hindu marriage and it is carefully chosen by the astrologer (Pandits /Shamans / Brahmans ), and it is the most ideal time when maximum Gods and Goddesses are called and will be present to bless the couple during the marriage ceremony. The couple conducts seven circuits of the Holy Fire (Agni), which is considered a witness to the vows they make to each other. Agni, god of fire acts as the divine model for the priest. Agni (Fire God) is the messenger who carries the message from humans to the gods, bringing the gods to marriage place, and intercedes between gods and humans. This is exactly similar to the Lughnasadh ceremony in terms of inviting the Gods and Goddesses to the
place of worship or ceremony.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_wedding http://astrobix.com/jyotisha/?tag=/shaadi-lagan-muhurta
What are the similarities between “Lu” and “Indra”?
a. “Lu” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugh
Name : Lú is Lugh
b. “Lu” as God: Lú is an Irish deity represented in mythological texts as a hero and High King of the distant past. He is a reflex of the pan-Celtic god Lugus, and his Welsh counterpart is Lleu Llaw Gyffes, "The Bright One with the Strong Hand". Lughnasadh itself is a celebration of Lugh's triumph over the spirits of the Other World who had tried to keep the harvest for themselves.
c. God of thunder and rain and a great warrior : Lugh's name was formerly interpreted as "flashing light", a sun god and a storm god:
d. Skilled in many arts: Lu had mastery of all arts made him described as the "inventor of all the arts".
e. Lu’s weapons and armory: He is known as Lamhfhada meaning "long arm" , for his skill with a spear or sling. He had a magic spear (named Areadbhar)
f. Lord of Rainbow: Lugh’s sling rod was the rainbow and the Milky Way which was called "Lugh's Chain".
g. Trickster: He appears in folklore as a trickster.
b. “Indra” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra
a. Name : “lugh” is “Lu” and “Lu” means “Indra” in Sanskrit
b. Indra as God : Indra is the King of the demi-gods In the Rig Veda, Indra is the king of the gods and ruler of the heavens. He leads the Deva (the gods who form and maintain Heaven) and the elements, such as Agni (Fire), Varuna (Water) and Surya (Sun), and constantly wages war against the opponents of the gods, the demon-like Asuras.
c. God of thunder and rain and a great warrior: Indra is the god of thunder and rain and a great warrior, a symbol of courage and strength. As the god of war, he is also regarded as one of the Guardians of the directions, representing the East.
d. Skilled in many arts: Indra is celebrated as a demiurge that pushes up the sky, releases dawn. He under whose supreme control are horses, all chariots, the villages, and cattle;
e. Indra’s weapons and armory : Indra's weapon, which he used to kill Vritra, is the Vajra, though he also uses a bow, a net, and a hook. In the post-Vedic period, he rides a large, four-tusked white elephant called Airavata. He rides a chariot pulled by four horses capable of traversing through the air. When portrayed having four arms, he has lances in two of his hands which resemble elephant goads. When he is shown to have two, he holds the Vajra and a bow. He lives in Svarg (Heaven). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra
f. Lord of Rainbow: In Hindu mythology, the rainbow is called "Indradhanush”, meaning the bow of Indra, the God of lightning, thunder and rain.
g. Trickster: Indra also appears as a trickster in many of mythological folklores.
We find all the similarities between God “Lu”, “Lugh” and “Indra”. The God “Indra” lives in heaven and so does the God “Lugh” and “Lu”. The place of the High King “Lu” is “Tara” and therefore “Tara” is heaven and it is heaven on Earth and it is also the most sacred city of the Druids.
“Let us save Tara”
“The Heaven on Earth”
This article is dedicated to all those who are determined to save “Tara”, “The Heaven on Earth”
“Spirituality is beyond religion, Help us save Tara”
Always invite a Celtic Elder for a feast, to know more on Tara and take their blessings as well.
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Thank you for your time.
Please let me know your thoughts.
By: Surendra N. Mathur
you may find this thread on the very topic you are talking about interesting
Dear Padma, many thanks for this. Please let me know if you find more stuff.
Hello Surendra (and friend)! Blessings from your friend West!
There is not, nor has there ever been, a Celtic people (except perhaps the Keltoi themselves).
When discussing things that are based in anthropology, it is of the utmost importance to get your terms right, or you run the risk of conflating seperate ethnicities.
The "Celtic" languages are a group of roughly similar proto-Indoeuropean languages that share about as much with each other as they do with the other proto-Indoeuropean languages. The conflation of the proto-Indoeuropean cultures into one umbrella heading was the result of sloppy anthropology committed by people who were so anthropocentric as to grant credence to accusations of racism.
That's worrying, given the above. If these Elders exist, why do they not correct your friend on the misuse of a word that they would likely have found offensive?
This is inherently incompatible with the noted xenocentric attitudes of most of the european cultures that your friend is purporting to believe.
There are no druids left in Ireland. There have not been for centuries.
Any organisation claiming the title is doing so under false pretenses.
Any person claiming that they are elders among the druids of Ireland are presuming to a title that they have no right to. The line of druids was broken, quite clearly and quite distinctly.
However valid such faiths may be, as faiths go, is utterly irrelevant to their presumption of a title they have no right to.
I heard it was placed there as a symbol of holy masculinity and a symbol of kingship.
This is a vile and distasteful practice. It damages the trees by cutting off the bark as they grow and poisons them as the artificial dies make their way into the living tree.
That is explicitly contradicted in our epics.
Again, that is explicitly contradicted in our epics.
Again, that is explicitly contradicted in our epics.
Again, that is explicitly contradicted in our epics.
They do not. People claiming to be druids do so.
No it was not. It was High King Lugh.
Those two letters are really really important.
Now, when one conflates two cultures and says "look, see these similarities" it is of utmost importance that one looks beyond them. Lugh was the grandson of a Fomor. He became a Tuatha dé through bragartry and being pretty much good at everything.
Ankh comes form the Egyptian word pronounced ʽnḫ and meaning "life". Not oak.
You are abusing the word "therefore".
It is not "therefore" that that Lu + Agh means Lugh. You have not provided any evidence tying Lugh and Oak together. It's not in his origin story.
This kind of homogenisation is intellectually dishonest.
I have just checked up Indra's creation story, his general behaviours and his attitudes to things.
He bears no resemblance to Lugh, save if you squint really hard.
That's because the Druids were wiped out.
In order to attempt to create a new druid organisation, the people involved pillaged from other religions shamelessly.
It is not exactly the same.
They are similar.
Nobody's arguing that.
How many of them are cited?
Don't get me wrong. I accept and acknowledge that our people are indo-european. I accept that our language shares an ancestor with Sanskrit (I say that and I mean just that, not that Irish is a descendant language of Sanskrit, but that they are both descendants of an older language).
If we are going to say that our Gods are real and your Gods are real, then let us not conflate them because we gave them similar names, and ignore the historicity of the name giving and rewrite history in order to do so.
Lug was the old Irish, not Lu.
Now, I accept that Lu, in modern Irish, is pretty much exactly how लू is pronounced. But that is not to say that that is how Lug would have been pronounced. I know people who pronounce Lug as it would be pronounced closer as to how it is pronounced in English than लू, and they claim that is the correct pronunciation.
I do not feel it is appropriate, for example, to tell Indians that they have everything in their sagas wrong, and that the God of Israel is the only true God and that all of the things they think they know about their God is actually just the Hebrew being polluted by mistranslations.
CuAnnan, simply clicking a button to approve that post wasn't enough. Well done.
There was the Halstatt culture surely and the communities in Gaul and Celtiberia who identified themselves as Celts.
The Celtic languages have far more in common with each other than the other Indo-European languages. The same loss of consonants, the same case structure and inherited verb system, due to the fact that they all evolved from Proto-Celtic.
Homogenisation of disparate cultures into a single blend is just offensive.
Got a citation for that?
Yup, I'm not contesting that.
For which part, that Keltoi derives from a native Proto-Celtic etonym, meaning it was used by the Halstatt culture, or that it was used by Celtiberians and Gauls?
You said :
"The "Celtic" languages are a group of roughly similar proto-Indoeuropean languages that share about as much with each other as they do with the other proto-Indoeuropean languages."
This implies they are no more similar to each other than to other Indo-European languages. This is false, as they have far, far more in common with each other than with other Indo-European languages.
That it was used by the Gauls.
You know, you're 100% correct. I don't know what I was trying to get at with that sentence. It may have ran away with me mid edit.
A very interesting turn on this thread. CuAnnan - do you have citations for all of your claims? And what credentials can you provide for those of us who aren't as 'scholarly'? I was under the impression that while there were no 'Celtic people', the term is so commonly used that is has become acceptable even within academic circles. You know, the same way we say "American Indians" for example, although that term is perhaps even more incorrect, everyone pretty much understands and accepts its use in the common vernacular.
I've met Surendra, and he is dedicated to this study of finding connections between his ancestors and ours. He makes his translations directly from the Sanskrit and them draws conclusions based on available research of 'Celtic' cultures. I'm wondering if your research is based on Old Irish? Sanskrit? Something else?
While I'm not trying to start a flame war here, your post comes across as if you're an academic with an axe to grind against anyone who is interested in a 'practical application' and study of Druidry/Druidism, Celtic spirituality, and its possible connections to other cultures. An elitist and purist approach such as this is as effective as any fundamentalist approach - which is to say "my way or the highway" isn't a terribly effective way of convincing people of anything. It is highly effective at polarizing people and rooting them more firmly in their position, though.
I've met many Druids, many of whom are incredibly respected scholars who DO call themselves Druids. None of them consider the tradition 'unbroken', nor do any of them consider the Druid path as something that is 100% based on historical research. Rather, they (we) consider it a living tradition that is influenced by what we do know from anthropological studies, historical studies, texts, and oral traditions - but that we also must infuse it with content and context that is relevant to our own life and times.
I believe you have a lot of potential information to offer this forum, but if you present it in a way that makes everyone else 'wrong', and sets you up as the sole expert, you're destined to convince only those who already agree with your position. So in the interest of keeping the dialog open, how can you share your knowledge with us in a way that might engage us, invite us, and encourage us to look past what might be (incorrect) common knowledge, without making all of us wrong?
Except that you kind of just did say that, but in a backhanded way. And what a whopper this one is! I'd say if you don't provide some pretty significant credentials and citations proving to us that you are an expert on world religions, with an emphasis in ancient Hebrew and Sanskrit texts, this statement would strongly color any opinion regarding your previous statements...
No, I most certainly did not.
I said "it would be really really offensive if I said that" by way of saying "what you have just done here is really really offensive" only expressing it in a cultural context the OP would understand.
I do my best to avoid conflating cultures because of superficial similarities between them.
For some of them, yes.
Others are picked up from academia at large.
What academic circles?
I do not.
Almost every sincere statement starting with "I'm not X but" is an instance of X.
Only in the loosest sense of the word.
I'm a web application developer.
What practical applications?
I whole heartedly acknowledge our connections to other cultures.
The original post was not "look, our cultures are connected", it was "look, your culture is a dilution of ours". It was anthropocentric to the point of racism.
What happened to not trying to start a flame war?
Although, I suppose I would need to be personally insulting you for this to be a flame war and not just you taking potshots at me.
Can I borrow your time machine?
Then they are presuming to a title they are not entitled. Note, I use the word entitled.
How high a percentage is it?
And when the glaring inconsistencies between what they (you) practice and the anthropologically supportable sources are pointed out, they (you) just shrug it off?
I'm glad you used the word wrong.
Because I was trying to point out the moral wrongness of cultural homogenisation especially when one is trying to say "look, you're all just following our gods, but doing it wrong".
I do not believe, at present, that I can.
Actually, on this front, I cannot.
Intellectual integrity is at the centre of my personal path.
You have displayed, in this thread, such a wanton disregard for it that I have no interest in sharing with you.
However, until such a time as a mod says "you have crossed a line", I will continue to post contrarily so as to provide a "look, not all pagans believe in homogonising all world cultures, ala Margaret Murray and Edain McCoy, some of us believe in ethnic individuality without being racist, some of us believe that we should be entitled to our ideosyncratic cultures".
I am in no way saying that the Pre Irish culture is better than any other, I am however saying that it is entitled to be distinct and that anyone saying "look, you're really just Jews/Hindus/Pastafarians, but doing it wrong" needs to take that into account.