Guy chips in from fringe, ball rests against the flag in the hole without fully dropping. I'm next to putt, remove flag and another guy calls penalty against guy who chipped in because the ball didnt hit bottom of the cup.
Question is, if the ball hasnt/wont move and flag needs to be removed what happens?
Rubbish - If the flag comes out and the ball falls into the hole then it was holded by the last shot i.e. the chip shot - no penalty. Where do these guys get these notions about the rules !
Did you hand the ball back to the other player without allowing the ball to drop into the hole?
Ah, sorry, in removing the flag I lifted out the ball, so technically the ball didnt hit the bottom of the cup?
I'm not 100%, but I think the ball does have to be below the line of the hole. There may be some phraseology with regards to nomination, but I'd imagine as playing partners you're covered.
I know for a fact that you cannot remove the ball if it is still above the hole, while resting against the flag pole.
Basically, if this happens in the future, allow the person who chipped in, to adjust the flag, and take the ball from the hole.
I believe as long as the entire ball is below the surface of the green then it's considered holed. If it was not and the ball does not drop into the hole when the flag stick is removed, then the ball should be replaced on the lip without penalty. The player still has not holed out, if he doesn't then he occurs whatever penalty applicable. So the guy might be correct.
Bang....into the arena of penalties and "you shouldn't have done that"...
So, did the ball come out when you took the flag out ? How did the guy know the ball hadn't hit the bottom of the cup ? I'm not really sure I follow the sequence of events.
As far as I know, and I don't have a copy of the rules handy so I'm happy to stand corrected, I think amateurs must remove the flag before the ball.
Pros don't have to, and can pick the ball out without removing the flag.
Edit: just seen the post where you say you basically took the ball out with the flag, thats not allowed I'm almost sure.
Yes the ball has to hit the bottom of the cup.
If its wedged and not gone done u can remove the flag in a way that allows the ball to drop.
Pulling the flag and thus removing the ball too is not allowed
From the R&A rulebook -
A ball is “holed” when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole
and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole".
what if all of the ball is not below the surface.
Then it's not holed, as per the definition I posted.
Guess that settles it then
You removed it not him, so he gets to replace it and then remove the flag in a way that allows the ball to drop correctly.
He would not be penalised for you interfering with his ball.