Yeah, you need to work hard theres no arguing with that. But a student can only do so much themselves and after that they need good teachers and good environments to be taught in. Not every teacher is going to be perfect thats a given but it is much harder for a teacher to assist students when a class has 30 or more in it as there's just not enough time for it.
I had some absolutely fantastic teachers while I was at school but they weren't helped by poor funding and facilities.
A C in OL maths passes for proficiency now?
What's the formula for the points? Just out of interest?
A mature student who had spent a year on the dole before college would be entitled to the full non-adjacent rate plus the top-up plus the BTEA, coming to about 17k a year. They got rid of that just before I started though, fcukers.
I can think of 4 subjects I did where teaching was next to unnecessary and one other where about 2 months of teaching would have sufficed.
28064212 Registered User
Not that I know of, HEAR and the Foundation Course are separate. I don't know what supports are available to Foundation grads
Once you're accepted for HEAR, those are available to you as part of it
So, you're complaining about the money and assistance that some people get, yet you would have taken it yourself?
So you're just being bitter about it, then?
Yup, but I was eligible for entry to a 485 point course with ~235 points as a mature. TAP isn't any different to the best of my knowledge.
Sorry, meant to say free registration fees*
I think the point is that there's plenty of people from middle class/lower middle class backgrounds who would be just as capable and apt as TAP/HEAR entrants, if also given a chance.
Mostly, depends on circumstances, history and your application. I wrote quite a long personal essay/biography and it was sufficient to get me in without an interview.
To the best of my knowledge, they aren't translated to points.
What happens is theres a quota for TAP/HEAR/Mature Students and you're benchmarked against other applicants, not normal entry students.
I think it's quite rare for people who successfully complete the access programme to not be offered a place, in most colleges it's guaranteed.
Ok well, which subjects are these now? And since they're apparently all so easy, I'm assuming that you got A1s in all of them, yeah?
What did you go on to do in college out of interest?
CSPE for junior cert doesn't count
Fair play to you if that was the case, but a lot of others would need to be taught.
So you have to be first accepted to HEAR and meet criteria for it? I'm just trying to point out that stuff isn't "thrown at" these students as has been suggested.
But with the TAP foundation course you do an extra foundation eyar so although you may get in on lower points you also do an extra year of learning.
Very possibly, but that's the nature of the points race. There's not many people in the TAP foundation course - 50 get accepted, 25 matures and 25 young adults, not all complete, not all go on to University but I'm getting the impression think that TAP students are somehow stealing the places of other people.
I think that's changed in the last 12 months. And I'd definitely argue that you're guaranteed a place via TAP - you still have to work your year and get your marks, it's not an easy backdoor option. I don't think os anyway
It is when you're applying for a foundation course where you'll spend a year being brought up to the same standard as other students. If you don't meet that standard you can't apply for your course. You still need to meet the CAO requirements at the end of the day.
I'm not at liberty to say
Of course I would have taken it, I'm a human being and self-interest is ingrained in us. What's unfair when others have to support someone else's self-interest. I shouldn't be getting what I'm getting now, but of course I'll take it. If there had been a loans system in place for fees I would still have gone to college because I'm not an idiot.
Geography is remarkably easy, as is Biology. Economics I understood intuitively and Business is a joke. There's 4. I did three of them and got Bs in all of them, literally did no studying whatsoever and did maybe 30% of the homework we got through 5th and 6th year.
Currently in second year of Science. Will most likely be back in August, much harder to wing it in college.
Again I'm mainly talking about a specific case but it makes me wonder about the literacy standards in one of the other foundation programmes. (Not science.)
Didn't think so.
Which is great, and successful - again, I think the issue a few people have is that it's only available to just "poor" people.
The points race everyone competes in, except TAP/HEAR(and HEAR is the issue for me, I don't have a problem with TAP past the criteria being based on paper statistics/numbers and not looking at the real situation of those applying).
According to the website, anything over 50% and you're golden. 50% for a foundation year isn't asking particularly much.
For example, UCD guarantees places to Access graduates if they achieve over 60% in their Access year - and UCD are far more stringent when it comes to Access/Mature Students.
Well why are you being so offensive to people who are getting government funding? Would you have hated yourself if you'd gotten more assistance?
And I'm not just looking out for my own self-interest. It is MUCH better for the entire economy for me to go to college and get an education and get a decent job at the end of all this and pay taxes and the like.
So, you don't seem to think that everyone is entitled to an education. I personally think it's something that everyone should have the opportunity to avail of. This is why I think it's right for the government to provide education just like it would for housing or healthcare.
The only one of the 4 subjects that you listed above that I did for my LC was biology. And as much as I'll admit that I did not struggle at all with the subject (I did get an A though) I don't think it's true to say that it's only 2 months of work for the majority of students.
Also, just from your last statement, it doesn't sound like you work very much. You should be thankful that you have the opportunity to go to college and appreciate it a bit more.
You're reading disagreement as offensiveness, I can't control how someone reads my posts. I don't hate anyone for taking anything from the government, I hate that it's available.
Really now, is 90% of the reason you're going to college not to improve your situation and that of a possible future family? The economic argument is something I disagree with as well but it may be for another thread. People should pay for their own things and shouldn't have to pay more for making use of what they get/make/do, as will be the case if a graduate tax rather than loans system is introduced.
Everyone should be entitled to the opportunity of having an education. Some people don't want it, some aren't very good at it and some can't see the wood for the trees.
I wasn't saying it was a couple of months of work for students. Other than photosynthesis and metabolism and a couple of other bits and pieces the huge majority of the course is simply reading and remembering things, there's nothing to understand or concept to unlock. I was saying that there is little "teaching" needed for much of the course.
I'm probably the laziest bastard I've ever known. Even smackheads make an effort to get drugs, when I was doing them I had to make no effort.
I'm thankful I have the chance to go to college and do appreciate it. However I've got several major beefs with how the education system in this country works and I should have been finished a long time ago. It's only the next two years that count on the degree so I'll start working then.
starling. Registered User
Er... That's not how it works.
This is completely irrelevant to your main 'argument' and false to boot. The class rep training is paid for by the SU, not the college. Societies are given money from the CSC, not the college.
Why do you say that foreign people don't integrate into college life at all? That's not something I've ever come across, and you don't seem to be a very good source on that point since your vitriolic rant leads me to doubt that you have very many international student friends.
With people like you, undoubtedly.
It's important to increase access to university for obvious reasons. Unfortunately everyone is not privy to the same opportunities in life and programs like this help to even the playing field.