danlen Registered User
#1

Was just having a read through some stuff by Phil Richards and came across this article:

http://www.philrichardsperformance.co.uk/problem-with-milk-whey-casein.html

Seems pretty severe. Are his points valid or is this article biased in order to get people to buy his 'green protein powder' promoted throughout the page?

What are people's general opinions on dairy produce and potential alternatives?

tHE vAGGABOND Moderator
#2

I have heard many times that no one apart from soon to be mums and very young kids should be drinking full fat milk. [and them in moderation]

I could not tell you the last time I drank "real" milk.

I jump between slimline, super milk and soya for shakes and coffee

Adelie Registered User
#3

tHE vAGGABOND said:
I have heard many times that no one apart from soon to be mums and very young kids should be drinking full fat milk. [and them in moderation]

I could not tell you the last time I drank "real" milk.

I jump between slimline, super milk and soya for shakes and coffee


But the fat is where the good parts of milk i.e. the fat-soluble vitamins are! If you drink slimline you get less nutrients and even slightly more of the potentially harmful stuff, lactose and casein... If you're going to give up any milk I'd give up skimmed. There are a lot of debates about whether milk is good or not but I certainly don't think the fat is the problem.

El_Dangeroso Awaiting Email Confirmation
#4

Oh lordy, that website is very good at scaremongering isn't it?

Colin T. Campbell's casein-fed rats again, Chris Masterjohn addressed this study and there's more than meets the eye:

In the very paper (2) that Campbell cites as "a revelation to die for," showing that a high-protein diet turns the cancer switch to the "on" position, the low-protein diet proved lethal to the animals. The investigators gave rats a small dose of aflatoxin every day for six months and fed them either a 5 percent casein or 20 percent casein diet. The experiment carried on for two years, in fact, but they stopped adminstering aflatoxin at six months for the simple reason that half the animals on the low-protein diet had died. They had typical symptoms of aflatoxin toxicity including liver necrosis (cell death), proliferation of bile duct tissue, and fatty liver.

All the animals receiving 20 percent casein, on the other hand, were still alive at that point. For the remainder of the two years, the rats receiving 20 percent casein continued to live longer, but many of them developed liver cancer or pre-cancerous changes, while none of the rats fed 5 percent casein developed liver cancer.


So there's an easy way to prevent cancer, make sure you die before you get it.

Regarding the diabetes, it is true that many T1 diabetics exhibit antibodies to casein, but that makes sense when you remember that diabetes is an auto-immune condition and allergies are often expression of auto-immune dysfunction. The two go hand in hand. That's like saying that just because Christmas shopping and cold weather often occur together that Christmas shopping causes cold weather, which is a ridiculous notion but you wouldn't believe the amount of intelligent people make this mistake when it confirms a personal bias (myself included!).

I'm not saying that dairy doesn't cause issues for some, possibly a lot of people, it does. But if your a healthy person that has no leaky gut or auto-immune issues, then dairy can be a good source of nutrition, especially K2 if you don't eat organ meats. The best way to have it is raw and organic but failing that organic will do.

2 people have thanked this post
CathyMoran Moderator
#5

Needless scaremongering and they are obviously trying to sell a product. I drink full fat milk, always have (am pregnant at the moment). I need the extra calories as I am an oeosphageal cancer survivor, I also hate the taste of low fat milk. I will eat low fat yogurt though.

1 person has thanked this post
Bottle_of_Smoke Registered User
#6

tHE vAGGABOND said:
I have heard many times that no one apart from soon to be mums and very young kids should be drinking full fat milk. [and them in moderation]

I could not tell you the last time I drank "real" milk.

I jump between slimline, super milk and soya for shakes and coffee


Heard soya milk can reduce testosterone - not something you'd want to be doing if you're trying to build muscle

El_Dangeroso Awaiting Email Confirmation
#7

Bottle_of_Smoke said:
Heard soya milk can reduce testosterone - not something you'd want to be doing if you're trying to build muscle


It can do but I don't think that's been conclusively shown for everyone, it does have protease inhibitors that prevents the absorption of protein along with a number of gut irritants.

ciagr297 Registered User
#8

El_Dangeroso said:
I'm not saying that dairy doesn't cause issues for some, possibly a lot of people, it does. But if your a healthy person that has no leaky gut or auto-immune issues, then dairy can be a good source of nutrition, especially K2 if you don't eat organ meats.

Interesting - do you have any links for scientific articles linking leaky gut to dairy issues?
Any specific forms of leaky gut syndrome? There are quite a few that I remember

El_Dangeroso Awaiting Email Confirmation
#9

ciagr297 said:
Interesting - do you have any links for scientific articles linking leaky gut to dairy issues?
Any specific forms of leaky gut syndrome? There are quite a few that I remember


Is there? I don't know to be perfectly honest. All I know if the one where they test it by dosing with mannitol and lactulose and seeing how much makes it into the urine, a PEG test.

Casein has the ability to open up tight junctions in the gut for sure, but only if the full peptide makes it to the gut intact. This will even happen in cows and the milk is meant for them! But in a healthy body that doesn't happen because pepsin gets there first and breaks down the peptide even a little bit which deactivates the tight junction opening ability.

The connection between leaky gut and dairy seems largely centered around whether the pepsin enzyme is doing it's thing, if it is then it's all good, if not, you have an issue with dairy and it needs to be avoided, at least until everything is back working as it should be.

Gluten on the other hand is just bad news for pretty much everyone, unless you are one of the lucky 17% of people who's gut isn't damaged by it of course.

teacosy Registered User
#10

El_Dangeroso said:
Is there? I don't know to be perfectly honest. All I know if the one where they test it by dosing with mannitol and lactulose and seeing how much makes it into the urine, a PEG test.

Casein has the ability to open up tight junctions in the gut for sure, but only if the full peptide makes it to the gut intact. This will even happen in cows and the milk is meant for them! But in a healthy body that doesn't happen because pepsin gets there first and breaks down the peptide even a little bit which deactivates the tight junction opening ability.

The connection between leaky gut and dairy seems largely centered around whether the pepsin enzyme is doing it's thing, if it is then it's all good, if not, you have an issue with dairy and it needs to be avoided, at least until everything is back working as it should be.

Gluten on the other hand is just bad news for pretty much everyone, unless you are one of the lucky 17% of people who's gut isn't damaged by it of course.


Reference?

El_Dangeroso Awaiting Email Confirmation
#11

teacosy said:
Reference?


Here you go:

http://gut.bmj.com/content/56/6/889.extract

You'll need the full text to get the whole story, it really is an excellent paper.

WildBoots Registered User
#12

danlen said:
Was just having a read through some stuff by Phil Richards and came across this article:

http://www.philrichardsperformance.co.uk/problem-with-milk-whey-casein.html

Seems pretty severe. Are his points valid or is this article biased in order to get people to buy his 'green protein powder' promoted throughout the page?

What are people's general opinions on dairy produce and potential alternatives?


I think raw milk is the best, and although it doesn't suit everyone, it's a lot better than some of the alternatives out there. A lot of the milk substitutes, especially soy milk, are highly processed and borderline toxic to the body. If you really don't want to drink normal milk, you can make your own almond milk or hemp milk by blending almonds/hemp seeds in water (I like the hemp milk but the almond milk is an acquired taste).

I get my milk from a farmer down the road, he lets me take as much as I want for free and I give him fruit and veg from my garden when it's available . I don't think it suits everyone though, if you know your body at aall you should be able to figure this out for yourself, no tests or doctors needed.

This site has some good info:

http://www.westonaprice.org/

1 person has thanked this post
teacosy Registered User
#13

El_Dangeroso said:
Here you go:

http://gut.bmj.com/content/56/6/889.extract

You'll need the full text to get the whole story, it really is an excellent paper.


But that's just a pilot study with a sample of 3 non coeliacs?

El_Dangeroso Awaiting Email Confirmation
#14

teacosy said:
But that's just a pilot study with a sample of 3 non coeliacs?


That's why you need to read the whole thing. The full text says 'at least 3', they actually used 6 non-coeliacs:

All patients with and without CD on GFD
who were challenged with the gliadin solution
produced IL15 when compared with the basal
culture (fig 1A). Moreover, the IL15-mediated
response in patients without CD was also
triggered by the toxic 19-mer gliadin peptide
(three of six) and, especially, by the 33-mer
gliadin peptide (five of six). I


So around 83% of people that have zero outwardly identifiable gluten sensitivity have an immune reaction to wheat gluten that is identifiable by an incredibly sensitive assay, only one person did not have this reaction. Yes the study would be much more powerful if there were 50 people in the study but this research has a rich context of other studies showing the adverse effect that modern high-yield semi-dwarf wheat has on health.

Gintonious Registered User
#15

He is really pushing his supplement in that article, not quite sure what to think of it.

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