bk Moderator
#241

ninja900 said:
Google's figures come from distance on a map and assumptions about average speeds (in the US, probably) far in excess of what's achieveable in Dublin.


Not true, Google Transit is now available in Ireland, this is where they gather live traffic data via GPS enabled android phones.

Over time they are gathering and storing this data, using it to build up very accurate journey time estimates.

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FreudianSlippers Registered User
#242

BrianD said:
Yes and being a Dublin resident. I deal with fact not fiction.


Google's figures come from distance on a map and assumptions about average speeds (in the US, probably) far in excess of what's achieveable in Dublin.
It's pretty obvious that your claims bear no relation to reality. I wouldn't be confident of meeting your quoted time at 4am never mind at any time during the morning or evening.


The hospital was being in the right place for all the right reasons. It has good access and while I'm sure other sites might have better access it's really immaterial. Access is not the issues. The Mater hospital site is readily accessible.


If that's what you really think, then the actual experiences of real people who use the Mater, Temple St, etc. isn't going to change your mind.

Actually, I understood that where possible they were based on times in the maps car or statistic public transport data (where available)

They are actually quite accurate.

Hotblack Desiato Registered User
#243

bk said:
Not true, Google Transit is now available in Ireland, this is where they gather live traffic data via GPS enabled android phones.

Over time they are gathering and storing this data, using it to build up very accurate journey time estimates.


No doubt once they have that data they'll see a large increase in their estimate for that journey, then!

A claim of an average of 18 minutes means that a substantial proportion of journeys have to be less than that time...

bk Moderator
#244

ninja900 said:

A claim of an average of 18 minutes means that a substantial proportion of journeys have to be less than that time...


No, it doesn't use averages, I've heard that it uses much more sophisticated data models.

Living in Dublin City Center and using it frequently, I find it pretty accurate.

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#245

Ernest said:
Today's IRISH TIMES has a good analysis by James Nix of the merits of 4 alternative sites for the National Childrens' Hospital ( Mater, Tallaght, Crumlin and St James/Heuston) under 4 separate criteria. In this analysis, a location adjacent to St James Hospital/Heuston Station would score more highly than any other location. This seems to me to make sense. It would be in the City Centre but also near traffic routes and on mainline rail and the Luas - even on the Dart if and when the Dart Underground line is built at some future time.
I cannot help contrasting this rational analysis of the hospital location decision with the gung-ho attitude of the Minister for Health on RTE News at Nine tonight where he seemed determined to chop back the proposed hospital to "fit" the Mater site - not to mention the equally adamant proclamation of Nama Debtor Harry Crosbie that building on the Mater site will go ahead despite its obvious unsuitability - epecially now that there will be no Metro North station to serve the cramped site.


And those sites were considered as there as an adult hospital on each of them but the Mater appeared to have scored better on all criteria. Heuston is not a current hospital site.

But again accessibility is not the defining issue. The Mater is accessible as any of the other sites - there isn't that much of a differential between the 4 sites.

Ernest Registered User
#246

BrianD said:

But again accessibility is not the defining issue. The Mater is accessible as any of the other sites - there isn't that much of a differential between the 4 sites.


WWHAATTT??? Have you been to Eccles Street lately? Even with existing traffic to and from the two hospitals there (Mater and Mater Private) the street is a transport nightmare with no parking, no Luas, no Dart and no Metro North in prospect anymore. And thats before that Cruise Liner building is inserted on top of all the other buildings already crammed into the site.

robd Registered User
#247

BrianD said:
But again accessibility is not the defining issue. The Mater is accessible as any of the other sites - there isn't that much of a differential between the 4 sites.




I've been following your last few posts. Your profile says you live in Dublin but it's like you live in a land far far away, with some of your thinking re traffic and getting to the Mater.

I used to live fairly close. I don't live that far away now and brave the traffic each day.

L1011 Moderator
#248

Ernest said:
WWHAATTT??? Have you been to Eccles Street lately? Even with existing traffic to and from the two hospitals there (Mater and Mater Private) the street is a transport nightmare with no parking, no Luas, no Dart and no Metro North in prospect anymore. And thats before that Cruise Liner building is inserted on top of all the other buildings already crammed into the site.


A building with a rather large number of parking spaces...


robd said:



That applies FAR more to the people who keep insisting that their favoured site is a transport Valhalla and Eccles Street is the hardest place to get to this side of the Bering Straits.

Access to the Mater site is nowhere near as difficult as many posters here try to portray it. With more parking on site, more sensible restrictions and improvements to general flow on the N1 such as the soon to be underway widening at the Cat & Cage, any difficulties will be further reduced.

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Laydee Registered User
#249

I was very disappointed to see that this won't be going ahead any time soon. Probably a dumb question but if Temple street goes to the Mater, can they not tear down that building and put a huge carpark there?

robd Registered User
#250

Laydee said:
I was very disappointed to see that this won't be going ahead any time soon. Probably a dumb question but if Temple street goes to the Mater, can they not tear down that building and put a huge carpark there?


Most of it is in Georgian Buildings which they wouldn't be allowed tare down.



They might be allowed take down dome of the newer parts.

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L1011 Moderator
#251

Some bits could definitely be torn down, e.g. this is the nurses home I believe:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=temple+street+dublin&hl=en&ll=53.356129,-6.261435&spn=0.002251,0.006748&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.199598,55.283203&hnear=Temple+St+W,+Arbour+Hill,+Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.356129,-6.261433&panoid=YHWE-L-Xra60qrKPAjTzCQ&cbp=12,65.39,,0,0

but I would imagine they intend to use the site for something more financially productive, e.g. sell it when there's some form of recovery. Could easily require a carpark to be part of any development there, though.

#252

BrianD said:
Is this the site that would be closer to the Tara Towers Hotel?

Anyway, accepting a "not-build-as-a-childrens-hospital-but-will-do-the-job" is not the way forward.

This hospital needs to be purpose built from scratch.


The site is between the Tara Towers and Vincents. Just because it wasn't built as a Childrens Hospital at the outset does not mean it cannot be adapted successfully. It as a modern building and part of it was built as a hospital.

dowlingm Registered User
#253

Nope. This is a once in a century job. The motorways weren't built with second hand bridges and what not, the nation's kids deserve a purpose built facility with 21st century standards of infrastructure.

A greenfield site on the outskirts somewhere near at least one mass transport line might come in cheaper even if you add an acute facility than shoehorning one into an site.

The disappointing thing is to see things said in places like "well if you attach the facility to such and such a hospital it will fall under one university or the other" - which university gets dibs on the NCH should not be a deciding factor surely?

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#254

MYOB said:
Finn Breathnach is the most biased person going as goes wanting it at Crumlin and nowhere else

Maurice Neligan was not a paediatrician

Brendan Drumm is on the board of the new NCH and I have never seen him speaking out against it before or after his appointment to same.

Any more you want to suggest?

Brendan Drumm was a major player in the lobby group trying to get a new hospital built in Crumlin. Maybe you should do your research better.

Maurice Neligan was a consultant in Crumlin Hospital for 28 years. Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmheyojojey/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfcwgbgbqley/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

I see a recurring theme here, and it's you posting unsubstantiated facts and lies.


All I see are groups of parents of children formerly or currently treated at each hospital wanting (quite obviously) to protect "their" hospital. There's never any rationality except wanting to keep "their" hospital. Emotions do not make good decisions.

I'm not aware of any of the groups wanting to keep Temple Street. Or Tallaght. Very few support a new crumlin hospital. The vast majority seem to want a new national children's hospital rather than the status quo (or crumlin/temple street/tallaght being built up). So more bull**** from you.


Anyone who makes such biased statements as Breathachs need to be disregarded. Again, emotional attachment and protectionism causes brutal decision making.

Which you're far more guilty of than him


The majority of those consultants do not practice there - they are available to the hospital but due to it not being co-located, they are not present on site, have offices there, etc.

The majority of those consultants do practice there and are present on site, have offices, have weekly clinics and operations there. Care to prove differently?

A fair few even have private rooms there too.

Care to retract the "full of ****" attack now?

No, because you clearly are still full of ****.


ABP often report that something is in an unsuitable location when refusing permission.

Which doesn't negate the fact that ABP wasn't reviewing the suitability of the location of a NCH, they were reviewing the suitability of THIS NCH to THIS location.


My position is based on my own opinion, his is based on his. Why would his have any impact on mine?

Because he has far more information than you.


Try getting there from anywhere *other* than the N7 interchange, even with flashing blues on.

I have, as I've tried driving to work on almost every route to Crumlin including ballymount, crumlin village, south circular road, st peters road, captains road, crumlin road and sperrin road (among others). I get by ok without flashing blues, traffic is crap at peak but it's still far better than any access route in town.

I also like how you've backtracked from "equally gridlocked" to "equally gridlocked BUT PLEASE IGNORE THE MAIN AND MOST USED ROUTE TO THE HOSPITAL AS IT SHOWS MY POINT TO BE MORONIC".
Good job!


The talking heads that RTE, et al, dragged out yesterday are all vested interests - I never said everyone who disagrees with it is. However, nearly everyone in the medical profession who disagrees with it is closely linked to a failed bidder.

You claimed that 95% of the medical profession agrees with you and the Mater Site. You claimed the other 5% and disagreed because they had vested interests and something to lose. You have yet to provide any kind of evidence for any sort of a consensus among medical professionals about the Mater site, while I've provided lots of evidence that there does not seem to be any kind of consensus among medical professionals.


You just provided all the evidence yourself - a list full of consultants from adult hospitals.

You clearly (and yet again) don't have a clue how it works. Regardless of children's hospitals and adult hospitals, among Irish Hospitals must consultants sit in multiple hospitals. A Cardiac Consultant might sit for 2 days a week in Crumlin and 1 day a week in the Mater. A opthalmic surgeon sits one day a week in the Adelaide and one day a week at the Hermitage. Etc etc. Its incredibly common and in no way means that a "consultant is called in when needed". To claim it is shows just how little you know on the subject. Which really, really is a recurring theme with your posts here.


And how does high rise inherently impact on quality of life? It doesn't.

How does a high rise hospital in a gridlocked shabby inner city area affect quality of life? I don't think I even need to respond to this as it's so patently ridiculous.


Evenings and nights - precisely the kind of time traffic is so locked they need escorts....

I see, you read the bit in brackets but ignored the main text? Most of my work was either 8 until 4, or 9 until 6. I also worked occasional shift work on 4 until 12 and midnight until 8. More bull****.

Try 8-10am, 3-6pm. Try standing out in Crumlin Village for a day and watch the ambulance traffic coming in. It'd be a rare day that there wasn't either a Garda escort or an ambulance held up for a prolonged period.

Considering I also walked to either the Ashleaf(through Crumlin village) or Crumlin SC a lot of days for lunch, I can also again state that this is more bull****. There's also no traffic in Crumlin village before 8:30am or past 9am or between 3pm and 4:45pm so again, more bull****.


The Mater will have a maternity hospital should the entire plan go through; and it is a teaching hospital. Care to do a bit of research please?

I said doesn't have. I know reading posts isn't your strong point, but if you try again you might realise I was stating that it doesn't have a Maternity Hospital NOW. Also, and you seem not to be aware of this, but Crumlin Hospital is a teaching hospital already.


Crumlin, Crumlin, Crumlin. Shows where your viewpoint comes from on this.

How? I don't want the status quo, I don't want Crumlin to be enlarged, I simply don't believe the NCH at the Mater is the correct choice. I like that you're yet again trying to class dissent as being "vested interests" despite almost everything you say not being factual and you refusing to provide any evidence for your many fanciful claims.

There's three hospitals being replaced - Temple Street, the NCH in Tallaght and your former employer. Are you going to attack this solely from that perspective? Because if so, I'll have to file you under Breathnach.

I've explained why I believe the Mater isn't the correct site. Please see above and try to respond to dissent like an adult rather than being childish and classifying it as "vested interests" so you can conveniently not let it affect your opinion.

There is more than sufficient green space being provided in the new hospital as well as more than sufficient to be looked out upon.

Hah.


You've done nothing but attempt to fight Crumlin's corner

I've not once fought Crumlin's corner, I don't believe Crumlin is fit for purpose and I don't believe it should be enlarged or rebuilt.

badly

At least I have first hand knowledge of what I post, you just make things up.

insult me

Where exactly?

baselessly

Where exactly?

and make massive errors of fact.

Where exactly?


Still waiting for you to back up even one of your claims, you have yet to do so.

Are you going to continue to do this?

I haven't done any of that, whereas I've shown you several times to be posting lies/nonsense.

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#255

bk said:
Not true, Google Transit is now available in Ireland, this is where they gather live traffic data via GPS enabled android phones.

Over time they are gathering and storing this data, using it to build up very accurate journey time estimates.


Then why is it telling me Knocklyon to Georges Street is 15minutes while even at 3am with zero traffic it takes a few minutes more than that?

Might it be because as the previous poster said, it uses an algorithm based on distance, speed limits junctions etc rather than being based on actual experience?

You said "Not true" when it is patently true that this is the case. In the near or distant future this might change, but for now you are incorrect to state that it is "not true".

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